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KatrinaTheLamia's Posts

How I know nobody actually uses Steam.

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Comments: 134
KatrinaTheLamia said...
  • frustrated
I have mostly decided that the Batman: Arkham Asylum demo on Steam exists in much the same fashion as the references to the Necronomicon in HP Lovecraft's works. It is completely fictional, but people feel more important when they mention it.

Further more I have decided that as I go through Steam's layout and design, it mostly serves as a demo fro a really slow and glitchy GUI API, rather than a game communication service.

As I cannot seem to figure out a way to launch a game from it (doing so seems to result in either a noop, or causing Steam to quit).

Trying to download a game via Steam produces the same noop results in Steam. Via the Steam website, it seems to produce a popup saying to have Steam running (regardless of whether Steam is running), followed by yet another noop operation.

Generally I have only ever succeeding in getting software to run via a software key--however that only succeeded in getting it to appear in my account. It did not actually allow me to play it.

I then ended up with Killing Floor deciding to destroy my Steam instance. That is, causing it to instantly crash every time I tried to run the trial that was "going on" this weekend. It seems that this has also corrupted my user information, making that instance of Steam completely inoperable--and even partially deleting my user information. Which I found out as I tried to recover my password information from the blob file. Turns out that only part of my password was saved. And not an amount that makes sense on a system that makes use of any form of 8bit WORD.

Upon password recovery I came up with the following issues:
* The recovery key I got was never regenerated. In fact, I constantly got the same recovery key information every time I asked for the password. I mean, even the stuff I sent about two months ago gives the same recovery key. It was not even installed in the same instance of wine as this one, so it should not report it as the correct OS to run it on.
* The interface itself did not give me any information on what form area I filled in wrong.
* The password recovery interface did not even card if I got the recovery key incorrect. Leading my to believe that the recovery key is completely unnecessary, or at least not implemented.

Next issue is the password recovery question. For a choice of what it can be we have:
* City I grew up in: about five minutes of internet stalking can grab this on anybody who speaks even half as much as me.
* Name of Pet: fairly easy to figure out. In fact I quite regularly talk about the story my brother St.AMP talks about, where when he was in Chem School, having a sibling with a bright orange cat named, "Argon" can cause issues. An alternative guess would be from the story I joke around about St.AMP killing my dog Buddy. Other guesses could be any partners I had
* Childhood Hero: yeah--this one is fairly easy to guess BTW
* Mother's maiden name: because talking about Grandma Chiver's visit does not really give the gig up here.
* City I was born in: Yeah, I generally joke about this a lot. This recovery question is not very useful.
* I cannot remember the others... but many of them are _exceedingly_ easy to social engineer out of me. I would be kind of disappointed if somebody could not figure them out on me, and most other people who tend to get a higher profile after about five minutes of a google search.

I kind of want to try something based on the following:
* since the key itself does not seem important. As the password recovery system does not complain when I put things as blantantly wrong as "fish1".
* Making intercepting the email sent not nearly as important.
* since the question itself is easy to social engineer to get around.
Result: this could end up with me hijacking accounts =D

But to what end. All this amounts so far from everything I have seen on it, is to be a very slow GUI demo, with code that has not been implemented yet, and a poorly designed model.

I mean, a few glaring errors I have seen:
* Use of iexplorer.exe for content display instead of something that resembles a competent renderer, like webkit or gecko. I mean, I would not have minded seeing Opera's Renderer being used here either.
* Use of its own GUI toolkit, that appears to run quite a bit slower than anything else on my system. Good move Valve!
* Some third party games seem to require use of Punk Buster. Good job as well! You are really endearing yourself now.
* Poorly designed interface when it comes to grabbing my password. I will give some suggestions later on this.
* Requirement of using Steam.exe itself to recover a password--with no other option out there.
* I honestly do _not_ believe that the Steam.exe is able to recover a password. I have yet to see proof of this as having existed.

Now I have gone over my specs, to see if it is indeed a decent setup for Steam to run. It turns out, yush. do not believe me? Here are my specs:
CPU: 1.6Gz
Video RAM: 256MiB
Chipset: AMD Athalon
Display Resolution: 1366 x 768
Graphics controller: Radeon Xpress 1200
OS: Fedora 11 with Testing Repos enabled
Wine version: 1.1.32 via the opensuse Yum package.
Sound Driver: OSSv4
Colour Support: 24bpp... only thing higher, last I knew was 32bpp, and most people I talked to stated that 24bpp alone had more colours than the human eye can pick up.

It should be noted that this should meet the specs of Steam hardware wise. Steam has a Platinum rating in Wine--which means, it works exactly the same in Wine as it does on Windows (some even reported, that its behaviors in Wine is better than that on Windows--so this makes me only think less of it in Windows).

Suggestions for fixing Steam:
* set it up, so that it is more a form of a natural format on all environments. Meaning, that while it is its own set of executions, it is able to run on other platforms, like it is native to the platform it is on. If they really do not want to do this, hey, I hear .Net is fairly cross platform. Considering that Microsoft^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Novel is developing it on other systems. If that does not float Valve's boat, there is always Parrot.
* if you are going to use a web based interface, do not use the most blatant piece of tripe on the market. I mean, iexplorer.exe?! WHY? What planet does using iexplorer.exe make sense. Even the techs in the companies that use IE5 for "legacy reasons" do not want to do this. I mean, I kind of half expect that Steam is written in Cobol now.
* As soon as Steam starts up, make an SSL based connection to the server. this should be constant, and the server and Steam should be able to talk back and forth. I generally would recommend openssl. As it is the standard from what I gathered. I may be wrong. If I am, somebody could link me to a better SSL library? However, this way, we can move onto the next step.
* When filling in a login or password recovery form, the information, like key, secret answer and password, should be checked right away. I mean, this is not going to amount to 320B of payload data. That is ~(1/3) of a Kibibyte. Yush, I am aware that a packet _does_ require more here. that is why I said "payload". I doubt this would amount to more than 3KiB in transfer. Processor should not take up much here, mostly just an event that waits for focus to move to another form element. Rendering of the form element. And generating the payload of the form element and sending said data. Listening for the data. Then displaying the response. I mean, even supposing that the bottleneck was the server checking the records in their database. The next thing I need to say is: redesign your database. A database should not take that long to make a single query to it. Even if you have to wait for a socket on the MySQL server on Valve's end, there are designs around that. Such as a Socket Pool. If something needs to be fired off to an app about such a failure or occurrance. How about this? The data base has a few flags that keep track of this (which should not take that long to check out). Then a crond or atd style job, simply checks the database for this data a regular invals, and reports what it needs to the right spot.
* Do _better_ secret questions. I mean, try to avoid anything that can be socially engineered. This is nearly as bad as using my birthday for my password. No, scratch nearly.. IT IS as bad as using my birthday. There are many ways to set this up in a competant manner. How about giving hem a few options? A phone number to call, should login issues occur. An ability to add a public RSA key to the account, to allow entry via there. The ability to make your own secret question for your secret answer. Make it so that every time I get an email my verification code is actually different? Allow for a URL to be sent to the server. Store the user's common IPs used, the ranges they belong to, the ISPs that own those IP ranges and the regions of the world that those belong to.
* Stop using Eris damn Shockwave and Flash. Those are no longer an industry standard. Generally I regard Flash as being similar to Table based layouts and 1998 style web design (think Timecube).
* If you _are_ going to use a GUI, at least make it resemble a responsive GUI. Even on my friends computers (whcih again, I never had it used to buy games, download games or launch games there--making me wonder if those features even exist in reality) the GUI loads slow. And these people are people who know how to set up computers.

So yeah--from this, I can generally gather, people do not actually use Steam.

Counterstrike (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date: 10/NOV/00

Half-Life (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date:
Half-Life: Team Fortress

Half-Life: Team Fortress (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date:
Day of Defeat

Day of Defeat (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date: 06/MAY/03
Half-Life: Opposing Force

Half-Life: Opposing Force (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date: 19/NOV/99
Half-Life: Blue Shift

Half-Life: Blue Shift (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date: 12/JUN/01
Deathmatch Classic

Deathmatch Classic (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date:
Batman: Arkham Asylum

Batman: Arkham Asylum (PC)

Genre/Style: Action/Third-person 3D Action
Release Date: 15/SEP/09
Killing Floor

Killing Floor (PC)

Genre/Style: Shooter/First-Person Shooter
Release Date: 31/AUG/09
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Yeah um... PLants vs Zombies, Trine, Peggle, and The Longest Journey all work fine for me. In Vista no less. I think that Platinum rating is false. I'm not gonna lie, I'm very surprised you had trouble.
Or... your instance of WINE you are using for Steam is poorly configured.

Oddly enough, Steam works quite well on the platform for which it was written. Heck, the Steam app itself runs fine under crossover for my on my laptop, the issue is much more one of compatibility with games.

I'll agree with you on the security questions, they really should let you set your own, but note that there is one very simple solution that should be taken with all security questions, lie on your answer. This changes it to something that someone social engineering their way in is almost guaranteed to get wrong.
@xoaks I am not that surprised... Steam from what I am gathering, pretty much is a method to take up spare CPU cycles. I mean, I have not seen anybody use it for anything else with my own eyes.

I have seen Steam running.

I have seen people playing CS:S

I have _not_ however seen somebody access CS:S via Steam.

Based on what I have seen on Steam, I am unable to believe that anything is launchable from it. Again, I am regarding this as some sort of internet joke, much like All Your Base, The Story of the Purple Wombat, etc.,

Just another particular meme, that most people spreading it do not realise how stupid they are by spreading it.

Person 1: Hey! I just played $(Game) on $(gaming platform that does not exist)
Person 2: Cool! Can I join in with you?
I always lie in Security questions. Or, if they're case sensitive, use CaMeL cAsE or intentionally misspell things. Even add some words like "i'm from BosSton" instead of "Boston" for an answer.

I'm not for Boston by the by.
@KatrinaTheLamia I've only played those game through steam.
@Ranneko okay! Here we go What do I need to tweak Wine to play Steam?

Everybody I talk to regarding Wine and Steam generally also say it should "just work"--I am calling bullshit here. Generally every OS and piece of software I have ever used did not work properly directly out of the box including Windows (ESPECIALLY Windows). Generally I have found that factory settings are usually setup to not work at all.

Alright, after reinstalling Wine I have it setup as it is said there:

Wine 1.1.32 via opensuse repo in Yum. I have been told that opensuse's Wine works better than Fedora.
Wine Tweak Gecko is active.
Steam is installed.
I am not running any form of compositing.

What else do I need to play with? These appear to be what the documentation says I need.
@xoaks ah okay--so when I see them, I will generally consider them as "$(Game) on $(gaming platform that does not exist)" whenever I see those then from now on.
You are so contrary!
@xoaks if by contrary you mean go against the flow, well in this case I generally consider stupid memes to be worth going against.

When you do get that tutorial up, I expect a good Rickroll! Or better yet! That version of McRoll mixed in one of the end boss songs of Earthbound. Maybe I will post that shortly.

Or if you are really disliking my sheer lack of desire to follow this retarded meme, maybe have it a ninja link to meatspin.



may help out.

Though everywhere I look, people are reports issues with Steam on Wine...
@xoaks Most people I talk to say, "It works... AND BETTER THAN WINDOWS!"

Which makes me only think it is even _more_ horrid on Windows. Do you actually pay money for this? Or is that faked like the rest of this Meme?
Meh--trying Play On Linux now. If this does not work, I am generally going to start referring to Steam as "That Phantom Emulator."
@KatrinaTheLamia I don't know, I've only ever used Steam on Windows (where it works perfectly, what with it being designed and implemented specifically with that platform in mind) and Crossover Games which has a specific set up for Steam and Steam itself worked perfectly, but many of my games did not.

I was more indicating that your experience is clearly rather atypical and thus not good to extrapolate from.
While I don't know anyone who attempted to use steam on a not-windows machine, I do know a rather large number of people who have it.
And I've never heard complaints of things not launching.
Just yesterday I played TF2, Audio Surf, and a couple demos on my friend's machine.
I'd have to call "emulator issue" on that one.
@ComradeRavenhawk except I am not running Steam in an Emulator.


Steam still isn't build native for Linux.
@KatrinaTheLamia WINE emulates a windows environment. They make excuses but that's still basically what it is.

It's WINE's fault, not Steam's.
@xoaks that is what Wine does. It makes windows applications run natively on BSD, Solaris, OSX and Linux systems (provided they are on an architecture that the Windows program would have ran on that system eg: ix86, ia64 i86_64 or ARM).

Wine simply provides required libaries and functions that a Windows program needs to run on a POSIX system.

Think of it like the Linux nativity layer for FreeBSD.

So yush, I _am_ running Steam native to Linux, using Wine.

This is part of where the recursive backronym "Wine Is Not Emulation" comes in >.>
@ComradeRavenhawk yeah.. you know what? Steam has a Platinum rating on the WineApp DB. Which means that it will run on this system, just as well (if not better) than it does on Windows.


Furthermore into this Steam lie, I have been told it requies to be ran off of a partition formated as NTFS. Going to try this next. I am not really that hopeful. Especially when this concept is not mentioned anywhere at all.
Linux hates you, play on XP
@xoaks yeah--not installing Windows XP, just to find out it does not work there either >.>
@KatrinaTheLamia I'll kill myself again if XP doesn't work for you.
@xoaks how about this: I follow through on the whole password recovery via steam's website. Get a password that allegedly works.

Next, I get some manner of NTFS partition together.

I use Wine on the NTFS partition for the purpsoes of Steam.

At which point, _everything_ should be at the level where it would work like it would on windows. Hence the Wine AppDB's Platinum rating.

If it still does not work, I am not going to bother installing Win XP--as I do not feel that I would accomplish anything other than giving money to Microsoft for purchasing a License for Win XP. As at this point, it would be well confirmed that Steam is some manner of Joey Staggs type prank.

BTW: It is not Wine BTW, it is Steam: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=1554
Ok. I haven't killed myself in a while, thought this would be a good chance.
great, don't make me clean up the mess!
Oh I always clean it. Except that one time....
And... update. Upon somebody talking to me about the FUSE API, I have learned that Steam will not actually run on NTFS via Wine--and thus my current file system is, indeed, the correct one.

I will now work solely on making certain that my account is recovered. Which will take a few days, apparently.

At which point, if it continues to not work, I am going to continue to call bullshit on anybody using it for anything other than some manner of Joey Staggs type of practical joke.
Most people use steam, sorry. I realize however, you just wanted to smash things and yell out loud so that others could share your pain. Trust me, we've all blamed steam for something at some point. The fact that you and I still have it install says otherwise on what we really think though.
I use Steam. >.>

Team Fortress 2, Half Life: Source, Half Life 2, Half Life 2: Deathmatch, Plants vs. Zombies, The Killing Floor, Portal...and...Portal.
I have around 70 games on Steam, though a lot of that is the Id Super Pack.
Plus all the various Half-Life games.
Now take a deep breath...and imagine the gaming world without Steam. Exactly.
Yeah I probably have 60 or so games on steam, not to mention torchlight I just picked up, never had an issue at all. Oh and also, installing XP only gives money to Microsoft if you pay for it.
Im just going to put it straight,

A bitch session like this is a major overreaction to a personal problem with steam.
And update--I have my password. Trying it on my seventh configuration of Steam.

I log in--just fine.

I try to launch Half Life. Something that I would be surprised if it did not work. This should have been a test that got a positive result. It should have ran.

Steam then proceeded to crash really hard.

Though, I have subscribing to some of the Steam developer feeds. I am noting a _large_ amount of design errors, and plenty of others having issues getting software working.

The hilarious thing is, when some of them point out a lot of people are having problems with Steam's functionality (not me btw--I am mostly lurking for now), he had a few people state that he was spreading lies in the community.

Yush, a convesation goes:

Random Joe: You know, a _lot_ of people are having issues getting this set up.

Another funny quote from it was when a bug was pointed out, the person said, "it is part of the current milestone development" (paraphrased)--rather than a decent response like, "I will look into it right away and try to fix it"

I should prolly stop checking out development lists for stuff like this. It was the moronic stuff going on in the Facebook Forums that made me go away from it the last time.

- @Avs who? Who uses Steam? In the whole time Steam has been out, I have only seen _one_ person with Steam running in any form, in person. He hating it--would have preferred to be able to run CS:S without it installed.

I have however talked to many people online like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Since I started bitching about this, I have come across three other people who cannot get it running either.

- @mokey91 @EarthboundX Except, you have no proof of this. Why am I to believe it?

- @Avs I am sorry--I cannot. Because first I would need to know what a world with Steam is like. I have yet to see Steam in action. I have only seen one person with Steam open. I have never actually seen him download or launch a game with it. It should be noted that he did not e even want to run Steam in the first place and does not even like it.

Since I started bitching about this, I go three more people tell me that they could not get Steam to function either.

Though, nobody to tell me how to get this system to actually work.

So, I am going to go with the conclusion that this is some sort of restarted Joey Staggs type meme.

- @JohnyQuesticle Well, except then, Steam will _still_ not work, and it will be because suddenly because I pirated Steam--rather than the fact that Steam does _not_ work as you guys say it does. Leading me further to believe it is some kind of Joey Staggs type joke.

It also does not help, that I have found that I cannot actually put an NTFS partition onto this computer, without wiping my entire harddrive (due to how my LVM setup is done). Not a risk I am going to take for something I do not even think will even work to begin with--as I have had no proof it will work.

- @GadgetArcrep heh--well, yush it is an over reaction. Mostly because I mention my problems, and people tell me there is no reason for them to exist. So I counter and say that program does not function in the way they say at all.

I have had _no_ help on fixing this. Mostly comments on how this behaviour is atypical.

_That_ is the _only_ help I have gotten. Leading me to wonder what the hell typical is--as I have never witnessed it.
@JohnyQuesticle I mean "Pirated Windows"

Why should you believe that people have large steam libraries that they play? No proof?
What do want?
Screenshots of people running steam?
Shall I record a video opening and running some games?
It's incredibly silly to attempt to make an argument _to the internet_ saying "If I haven't seen it used in person then this large number of people saying they use it must be lying and the minority agreeing with me must be telling the truth."
Those are called fallacies.
And if you're going to say "I have no proof your steam works!" We could say "We have no proof yours doesn't!" but don't. Because that's pointless, immature, and there is no reason to assume people are lying.

We are not saying that steam may not have problems. What we are saying is that you are a minority in your having of problems. You are also a linux user, which is almost certainly a large part of your steam issues. OS differences in program behavior aren't fair, but they're the way things work.

If people don't know why you're having problems and can't help you it's because not only is it uncommon but your own reasoning builds an argument that there shouldn't be problems. Your link posted on the Wine support thing says everything works fine. However while you say that means there's an issue with steam, not wine, it is also the WINE people saying _There is no problems with steam_. The whole argument is circular.

As far as the developer feeds go:
1. Of course you're seeing problems. That's what the feeds are for. You don't post on a developer feed just to say, "I downloaded a couple games today and they ran as normal, huzzah!"
And 2. If they have poor customer service/support that's a bummer, but if the people posting were HALF as antagonistic as this post was written to be I can see some reason to be less than cordial.
And, while in a perfect, ideal world, developers of programs would be able to fix all issues people have immediately so everyone is happy on an individual basis, things like "hardware/software limitations on error replication" come into play as well as the ever present "Time and money." The problems that the majority and/or larger market share are having likely come first as they have to pay ze bills.

And on an ending note, I have no idea who Joey Staggs is. And I'm too lazy to google it because it's likely something freaking retarded, not to mention irrelevant.
@ComradeRavenHawk: Well said.
@ComradeRavenhawk screenshots and videos can be faked--easily. It would not be the first time somebody has faked a screenshot.

As per bragging about large libraries--heh.. you must be new to the web--or at least not seen some of the even slightly seedier parts. The idea of bragging about a large amount of fiction items is not really that hard of thing to do.

I hae actually stated what I need for proof _many_ times when I brought this up. I feel like you are all retards as you have not picked this up.

I need to see somebody download a steam application and launch it, in person. However this is somehow to much to ask. I do not get why I should just accept that this works and operates--I do not. And yet people constantly berate me on how I am not getting it to work based on the grounds that I do not believe it will work--as that is the only response I have gotten on this.

Re: Wine on Steam

Not see what you are saying here. I am saying I cannot run Steam on a setup of Wine that has a Gold Rating.

I have not seen these posts where you have referenced that the Wine community itself is complaining about team being screwed up.

Generally when somebody mentions that Steam does not run on Linux in a few other places it has been mentioned, it is disputed completely. This is the only place of discussion that nobody has mentioned that Steam runs just fine in Linux. Usually other communities I have griped about it on, somebody will say "well you are using Linux that is why"--they are normally clouted with a few other people, who state that they get Steam to run just fine in Linux.

I am sorry--I am going to need to need to say [citation needed] on the whole issue of Steam not running as well on Wine as on Windows (excluding of course the cases involving Gentoo(as it is mostly bleeding edge) and Ubuntu (or as Linux users call it, "Ubloatfail")).

Sorry, I am going to need a good [citation needed] here on your claims.

Re developer feeds;

1) Yes, I do see a few posts saying, "yay things work--no problem." Those do pepper my inbox every now and then.

2) Clearly we do not exist in the same reality. I do not recall people being too rude before they got the response of, "YOU LIE!" and "That is how things are suppose to work" (instead of showing that they plan on fixing it.)

And as per the ideal world: you will generally note that any of the healthy FlOSS projects actually do work like that. You post something on the bug tracker about an issue and generally within a fe days, you will get a response of, "I am looking into it, can you give me more information?"

Not this bullshit answer of, "it is beta software, this means it is going to suck. Live with it."
@xoaks that is kind of humourous--as a large amount of the Steam ratings on Ubuntu in the Wine AppDB list Steam's interactions on Ubuntu as the Garbage level. (In fact the majority of the garbage levels in the Wine AppDB are for Ubuntu and Gentoo--with on Debian Sid entry)

Okay--now that we have established it works.

How do _I_ get it to that stage.

Until I can replicate the results, I really see no reason to believe them.

Okay, @xoaks, we have established it works--now, pray tell... how do I get there? I mean, it is nice that they show it running--but how do I get to that result?

The database link you gave, btw, was not a way to get Steam to work. It is a way to get the Halflife Dedicated Server to run. Which from what I gathered was not the same thing.
@KatrinaTheLamia I enjoy the fact you feel everyone else here is a retard when you say "I do not get why I should just accept that this works and operates--I do not."

Thats like having a broken down Honda in your backyard thus refusing to believe other people have working Honda's without actually seeing one pass your house.

Want proof, look at any of these people's gameplay history, mine even. I guarantee there are a few "verified gameplay" events that originated from steam.
@xoaks And running that installer now--I really do not normally pay attention to Rapidshare links. It seems to function slightly better--will try downloading the Batman AA demo as a test.

Which was the original reason I even tried to get this running again.

- @JohnyQuesticle well, except, in this case, if you were to have a honda pass in front of my house I would believe.

What you are doing is not that.

You are saying, "I see honda's pass in front of my house all the time"--without really inviting me to see them.

As per the "verified gameplay"--that is nothing that I have not seen in a few other joke style memes on the internet. Trust me having a system fake that has occurred before on the net. However the only difference is that system is usually localised to a single site as an injoke.
And update--it runs... but every time I try to install something, it crashes >.>
You know--I find it just _slightly_ suspect that nobody has said, "hey so and so is in Edmonton and can show you in person that Steam works"

As that is the one piece of proof i have stated that I would accept more than anything. Instead you offer videos and pictures--despite my constant stating that screenshots and videos are something that have been faked in the game community for years.

You mentioned the verified plays--I have to admit, I have nothing to say this is not something that can be faked--this does not mean it is not fake however.

> I'm also running steam on my netbook.
> 256MB of Video memory (shared with the ram)
> 2 GB of ram (667 mhz)
> 160 gb 7200 RPM Sata Drive
> Atom 1.6 processor.
> Windows 7 32 bit

Apart from the brand of processor (mine is AMD64, though in am running it in 32bit mode) how are those different from my stats?

And if I _really_ do need to upgrade--it is just another nail in the coffin for PC gaming for me. As I bought Holly here, new, out of the box June 2009. There is no reason it should be out of date.

Though considering that you said I need to upgrade by looking at my stats when they match yours... I almost need to generally disregard your post as you did not read a damn thing I posted.

> Besides, no one is reporting the issues that you are
> experiencing from where you live. I see no postings on
> steam's forums.

Alright then--get an Edmonton user of Steam to _prove_ to me it works. I have asked for a demonstration of its workings.

Nobody has offered even though I have requested it a few times.

Generally making your side of the story even harder to believe.

Though, it is kind of funny you mention no note of it on Steam's forums. As well, I have not posted there myself. As even when I posted it outside of Steam, I have been accused unfoundly of making some crude attempt at trolling (suggesting that I am lying on the matter).

I generally do not post on Steam as I do not desire my Steam account to be wrongly banned over suspected trolling. I also really do not desire to have every useful post filled in amongst thirty posts of "get windows!" (which I have generally regarded as not an option, as I do not actually know how to use Windows. Linux and BSD I get jus fine--put me infront of Windows and I am lost). Generally every other post will likely be, "there is no reason for you to have problems".

Keep in mind, it was fourty posts into this post before anybody even offered something useful to help my situation.

I dunno, I seem to mention I have issues with Steam, and many people using Steam do not regard me as a real person, as well, the most complete instructions I have gotten here (from @EarthboundX ), I just download, install and sign up. That did not work. Not much has really worked so far.

Now, I need to ask, what would it solve by posting on the Steam forums?

I mean, maybe I should try it--posting elsewhere has pretty much been nonconclusive on the matter.
@joshualwilliams1981 Well--going over your barrage of posts (you really need to cut the coffee down):

I have given many issues with what is going on. I have made note of many of them quite a few times. Though, you have shown that reading comprehension is not your best suite. Many of them have been solved except for one, thanks to help from @xoaks

Attempting to install an application causes Steam to crash. Kind of a killer, right?

As per why I bought this notebook--it was not intended to be a Gaming PC. I bought it to work on various items and concepts. That were not gaming related. I just happened to grab it because--well my desktop died so badly that the only thing that could be recovered was the power supply, and I needed a computer.

As per mowing lawns... I think shovelling side walks would be more effective. Though, not for a few months, and even then, I am likely to only get paid about 5$CAD per driveway. So this is not a solution to getting this ultimate gaming PC. Especially when I have other things on my list much higher up than an ultimate gaming PC, that are actually kind of a little more useful.

Though, it is kind of hilarious. I just read your list of games that I can play, and it read as a list of every game that was not to be on Steam.

Am I to make the conclusion that you do not desire me to be on your precious Steam now that I questioned the reality of it?

Though, I find it hilarious that you mention in one post that you use Steam on your own netbook in one post--then in the next one state that a netbook is incapable to use Steam.

Maybe I might believe you a little easier, if you were a little more consistant in your message.

And yes, it does help. It shows the attitude of a gamer being, "you do not believe us, we do not want you here".
@joshualwilliams1981 miss, BTW.

Though seeing as how poorly many of the people defending Steam function in a debate, and completely ignored two blatantly obvious ways to prove me horribly wrong, and generally showed a complete lack of decent reading comprehension.

I need to start questioning the quality of the plot of various games on Steam >.>
@joshualwilliams1981 I dunno--Batman AA runs on the XBox 360. I mean even considering it runs a RISC instructor set, it clocks in at ~700MHz... or an equivilant of an inteel instructor set of about 1.6MHz.

Kind of makes me question what Batman AA could possibly be doing on my computer that would require so much more power.
@joshualwilliams1981 okay then. Now that you have flip flopped on what you are saying again, before you decide Steam does not work on my Notebook, perhaps you could tell me what I need to do to get it running?
@joshualwilliams1981 error message? there is suppose to be an error message? When was I going to get told this.

I have just clicked to get the following to install:
* Half life
* Day of Defeat
* Batman AA.

Each and everyone of those. Steam just quit on me. No error message or anything. Just completely quit.

Now, here is my question for you, what about the 360 seems more like my cup of tea? What made you think this?
@joshualwilliams1981 heh--well at this point it is not so much Batman that is a requirement. I had given up on tha when you mentioned system specs. Try to keep up, mmmkay?

Now--as far as Firewall software. I just have a simple IPTables entry. Mostly to block sandveil attacks that some ISPs are stupid enough to think actually do anything to shape traffic. One of the rules in my IPTables is that I do not respond to a network connection unless I initiate it. The router itself, does not accept any Mac Address apart from my Laptop. It is not currently encrypted, but even if it were, it would only be WEP, which despite being failed is require for some of my devices in the house.

Anti-virus, AFAIK, I only have SELinux running for watching for exploit stuffs. Though most Linux exploits do not target Wine applications. I do not really have an Anti Virus in Wine, as since most viruses do not set eax to 02h, I can generally recover the stuff there by nuking my Wine root. I mean, it is possible for a virus in Wine to affect the rest of my system--but most virus writers do not make their viruses wine aware.

Internet connection would be Cable, via Shaw Cable. I generally have one of the slightly faster levels. Not the fastest--but faster than average.

My connection to my router is wireless. It seems that the RJ-45 jack on my notebook does not function. I may need to look into that. However it has not became important yet.
still working on this, but I found your proof.

oh, if you go to your steam directory, there is a steam.log file

open that up in a text editor and post it so we can take a look at it.

it sounds to me like a local pc issue. Try installing windows on a virtual server and see what happens.
I need the full log file to determine a resolution.
@joshualwilliams1981 "virtual server"? I do not have a VMWare license--I mean I have tried getting one, but from what I gather they generally cost 200$USD a pop.

I mean, there is also qEMU/Bochs and VirtualBox OSE--but I have never succeeding in getting Windows to work on those whenever I have tried.
@joshualwilliams1981 Yeah--the log file is just those lines... over and over again. Not really worth looking at.
you aren't helping me troubleshoot your issue at all. I need the entire log file please. Thank you.
oh and there are plenty of ways to user vmware without buying a license.
@joshualwilliams1981 no, I am very frustrated with people who do not bother to listen to what I am saying attempting to do tech support. Trust me--if you were this frustrated, others may see you as rude too.

I have repeated many things I have been saying several times by now. I have no idea why repeating them seems to be a requirement for you to do tech support.

Anyways, followed your link to the VMWare stuff--uh--what is this I am signing up for? The sign up sheet really does not go over what it is I am getting involved in..
and @joshualwilliams1981 appears to have rage quitted this thread.. here are the messages that he has deleted, and their timestamps (just so you can get the context of my messages).

Today 05:42:29 joshualwilliams1981 said:
wow I almost choked on my ham sandwich when I read "People don't use Steam"

It's the only way that I purchase my games.

Secondly, I've never had a single problem with it ever.

I was looking at your specs and it may be time for an upgrade? Here are my specs.

AMD Phenom X4 3.0ghz
10,000 RPM Velociraptor SATA Drive
4GB Corsair RAM
Windows 7 64 bit
Nvidia GTX 260 with 768MB of Ram
Soundblaster FaTality Gamer

I'm also running steam on my netbook.

256MB of Video memory (shared with the ram)
2 GB of ram (667 mhz)
160 gb 7200 RPM Sata Drive
Atom 1.6 processor.
Windows 7 32 bit

Now, I'm not trying to run anything older than 2004 with the netbook. Srsly it's not built for gaming. Even trine, braid, stuff like that runs kinda iffy. But I'm aware that's my pc's fault. Not steam.

The other option that I would consider is possibly slicking your machine. By looking at those hardware specs, I would say that it's definately time for an upgrade.

The other question that I have, you aren't very specific with how it is crashing. What exactly is the error message that you are seeing? I guarantee if you had someone troubleshoot it for you that they could get to the bottom of it.

Steam rules. I own a TON of games on it.

Besides, no one is reporting the issues that you are experiencing from where you live. I see no postings on steam's forums.

Oh, and no one is hacking my steam community site.
funniest crap I ever heard.


Today 07:42:47 joshualwilliams1981 said:
I am a Desktop Support Administrator for a website marketing company and I deal with troubleshooting all the time. We have over 200 users and have worked in offices in Washington State and Jacksonville Florida.

That being said, I would love to help you get this issue resolved.


From my initial observations of what you are reporting and the lack of real information regarding the issues I can't help you.

Do you really want this issue resolved? If so, I'll give you my number and we can work through it together.


Today 07:46:22 joshualwilliams1981 said:
oh and the demo for batman, arkham asylum is really fun. I just downloaded it ;)


Today 07:49:25 joshualwilliams1981 said:
but I didn't try it on my netbook because there is NO WAY that a netbook is going to push those kinds of graphics. I can't even get halflife 2 to run smoothly on mine. and that was made years ago.


Today 07:50:20 joshualwilliams1981 said:
my suggestion is that if you are serious about PC gaming, you start mowing some lawns. Make a little money. Purchase the parts, build yourself a PC that pwns resolutions and framerates that xbox wishes it could handle.


Today 07:50:45 joshualwilliams1981 said:
essentially, if you were sold on a netbook being a gaming pc you were taken. Much like a used car salesman.


Today 07:51:18 joshualwilliams1981 said:
I wouldn't reccomend playing any new games without spending around 600 dollars on a pc.


Today 07:51:37 joshualwilliams1981 said:


Today 07:54:12 joshualwilliams1981 said:

here's something to help you get a little more current.


Today 07:55:51 joshualwilliams1981 said:
and here is a list of titles that work on most netbooks

3D Ultra Cool Pool
7th guest
Abes Oddysey
Advanced Tactics
Age of Empires
Age of Empires 2
Age of Empires 3
Age of Mythology
Age of Wonders 2
Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
Air Strike 3D
Albatross 18 season 3
Alien VS predator
Aliens vs Predator 2
Alpha Centauri
American Mcgees Alice
Anarchy Online
Armadillo Run
Armageddon Empires
Army Men RTS
Arx Fatalis
Axis and Allies
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amin & Throne of Bhaal
Battlefield 1942
Battlezone 2
Beer Tycoon
Beetle Crazy Cup
Birth of America
Black & White 2
Blade Runner
Blood 2
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
Bookworm Adventures
Broken Sword
c&c 3 tiberium wars
C&C Generals + Zero Hour
C&C Gold
C&C Red Alert
C&C Red Alert 2
C&C Renegade
C&C Tiberian Sun
Call Of Duty
Call Of The Cthulhu: Dark Corners Of The Earth
Captain Claw
Carmageddon 2 - Carpocalypse Now
Cesar 3
Championship Manager 01
Championship Manager 02
City of Heroes
Civcity Rome
Civilization 2
Civilization 3
Civilization 4
Close combat
Codename Panzers Phase 1
Colin Mcrae 2005
Colin McRae Rally 2.0
Comanche 4
Combat Mission: Berlin to Barbarossa
Commandos : Behind Enemy Lines
Conflict Desert Storm
Conquers Online
Conquest of the Aegean
Counter Strike Source
Counterstrike 1.6, Condition Zero
Crazy Taxi
Crisis Z
Crusader: No Remors
Crusaders of Might and Magic
Cube 2 (Sauerbraten)
Daemon Vector
Dark Age of Camelot
Dawn of War
Day of the Tentacle
Dead Man's Hand
Delta Force 2
Delta Force: Land Warrior
Deus Ex
Diablo 2
Disciples 2
Discworld 1 + 2
Doom 1
Duke Nukem
Dune 2000
Dungeon Keeper 2
Dungeon Runners
Dungeon Seige 1
Dungeon Seige 2
Emperor - Rise Of The Middle Kingdom
Escape Velocity Nova
Etherlords 2
EuDemon Online
EVE Online
Evil Genius
EXULT - Ultima VII
F22 - ADF + TAW
F-22 Raptor
Fable: The Lost Chapters
Fallout 2
Fate UR
Fear Combat
Fifa 2003
Final Fanstay VII
Final Fantasy 11
Flatout 2
Football Manager 08
Ford Off Road
Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone
Formula 1 grand prix 4
Freedom Fighters
Freedom Force Vs the Third Reich
Fury 3
Galactic Civilisation 2
Geof Crammond Grand Prix Four
Ghost Recon: Island Thunder
Gothic 1
Gothic 2
Grand prix 2
Grid Wars
Grid Wars 2.
Grim Fandango
Ground Control
GTA San Andreas
GTA Vice City
Guild Wars Prophecies
Guild Wars: Eye of the North
Guild Wars: Factions
Guild Wars: Nightfall
Guild Wars: Prophecies
Guilty Gear XX
Gunz The Duel
Hacker's Elite.
Half-Life 1
Half-Life 2
Half-Life 2: Episode 2
Halo Combat Evolved
Halo Custom Edition
Harry Potter and the philosopher's Stone
Heavy Metall: F.A.K.K. 2
Hegemonia: Legions of Iron
Heretic 2
Heroes of Might and Magic
Heroes of Might and Magic 2
Heroes of Might and Magic 4
Hidden And Dangerous Deluxe
Highway to the Reich
Hitman Contracts
Homeworld 2
Homeworld Catalysm
Hostile Waters
House of the Dead 2
Icewind Dale 1
Icewind Dale 2
Il2 Forgotten BattlesLegacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2
Independence War 2
Jagged Alliance 2
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight 2
Jedi Knight: Academy
King Pin
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2 Survival
Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy
Leisure Suit Larry
light Simulator 2004
Lineage II
Live for Speed
Lord of the Rings Online
LOTR: Online
Lunar Magic
Luxor 3
M.A.X 2
Magic the Gathering
Master Of Orion III
Max Payne 1
Max Payne 2
Mechwarrior 3
Medal of Honour: Allied Assult
Metal gear solid
midtown madness 2
Might & Magic 6
Might & Magic 7
Might & Magic 8
MOO2urban terror
Moonbase Commander
Motocross madness
MS Flight Simulator 95 & 98
MS pinball demo
Myth II
Mythos, System Shock 2
Navy Field
Need for Speed 3 Hot Pursuit
Need for Speed 4 High Stakes
Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2
Need for speed Most Wanted
Need for speed porsche
Need for speed underground
Neverwinter Nights
Neverwinter Nights 2
No One Lives for Ever 1
No One Lives for Ever 2
No One Lives Forever
Operation Flashpoint
Pac-Man Adventures in Time
Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst
Pharaoh and Cleopatra
Pharaoh Gold
Planescape Torment
Populous 3 : the begining
Port Royal 2
Prince of Persia - Sands of Time
Project IGI
Quake 2
Quake 3 Arena
Race driver 1
Rage rally
Rage's E-racer
Ragnarok Online
Rainbow Six
Rainbow Six 3
Rally Masters
Rayman 2
Rayman 3
Red Alert 2
Resident Evil
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Return to castle Wolfenstein
RF Online
Rise of Rome
Road To Rome
RollerCoaster Tycoon 2
RollerCoaster Tycoon 3
Rome Total War
Rubies of eventide
Sam & Max
Sam & Max season 1
Screamer 4x4
Sea Dogs
Second Life
Sega Rally
Serious Sam: First Encounter
Serious Sam: Second Encounter
Settlers 3 Gold edition
SFC2: Orion Pirates
Shadow Warrior
Shogo: Mobile Armor Division
Shogun TotalWar
Silent Storm
Sim City 3000
Sim City 4
Simpsons hit and run
Sins of a Solar Empire
Soldier of Fortune
Soldier Of Fortune 2
Sonic Adventure DX
Space Empires 5
Space Empires IV
Splinter Cell
Star Ocean 2 PCSX
Star Trek DS9 The Fallen
Star Trek Klingon Academy
Star Trek VoyagerComanche 4
Star Trek: Birth of the Federation
Star Wars : Republic Commando
Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds
Star Wars Jedi Knight 1
Star Wars Jedi Knight 2
Star Wars Jedi Outcast
Star Wars KotOR
star wars pod racer
Star Wars Rebellion
Starfleet Command 2
Startrek Voyager: Elite Force
Steel Panthers
Street Racing Syndicate
Survival Crisis Z
System Shock 2
Tachyon The Fringe
Talisman Online
Team Fortress 2
TES: Daggerfall
The Curse of Monkey Island
The Longest Journey
The Movies
The Secret of Monkey Island
The settlers IV
The Witcher
Theme Hospital
Thief : The Dark Project
Thief Deadly Shadows
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Sheild
Tomb Raider: Anniversary
Tony Hawk 2
Top Spin 1
Total Annihilation
Trackmania Nations
Transport tycoon
Tribes 1
Tribes 2
Turok: dinosaur hunter
Tux racer
Unreal II The Awakening
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament 2004
Urban Terro
Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption
Virtua Fighter 1
Virtua Tennis
Virtua Tennis 3
Virtual Boy Advance
Virtual Pool 3
Warcraft 2: Tides of Darkness
Warcraft 3
WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne
Warzone 2001
Warzone 2100
Wild Metal Country
Wizardry 8
Wolfeinsten: ennemy territory
World Of Goo
World of Warcraft
worms 3D
Worms Armageddon
Worms world party
X: Beyond The Frontier
X: Tension
Xcom Apocalypse
Xcom Terror
Xcom UFO
X-Men Legends II
Zombie Shooter
Zoo tycoon 2


Today 07:56:20 joshualwilliams1981 said:
hope this helps somehow.


Today 08:54:21 joshualwilliams1981 said:
coffee is my lifeblood sir! haha

hope you get it fixed.


Today 08:55:01 joshualwilliams1981 said:
oh and comprehension is not one of my stronger suites. I'll agree with that....suit is what you meant.


Today 08:56:20 joshualwilliams1981 said:
oh and I never said it was incapable of running the steam client.
But I'm not silly enough to think that it will run all of the applications on steam.

srsly I only play OLD games on steam with my netbook because I know what demands my netbook has. Batman Arkham assylum is not one of them. i reserve that for my gaming pc.


Today 09:05:35 joshualwilliams1981 said:
here's a list of the games that I've tested on my netbook. They are on steam by the way...

Half Life 1
dawn of war
Deus Ex
Dark Forces
Jedi Knight
Doom 2
Fallout 1 and 2
Grand Theft Auto
Grand Theft Auto 2
Red Faction
Wolfenstein 3D

(These were in the list I just posted)

Beyond Good And Evil
Day Of Defeat
Deathmatch Classic
Final Foom
Freedom Force
Halflife Blue Shift
Killing Floor
Mare Nostrum
Max Payne
Quake 2
Halflife 2 Opposing Force
Red orchestra
Sacred Gold
Spear Of Destiny
Dark Forces
Team Fortress
Titan Quest & Immortal Throne Expansion pack
ultimate Doom
World Of Goo
X-Com Apocalypse
XCOM Enforcer
X-Com Interceptor
X-Com Ufo Defense
X-Com Terror From The Deep


Today 09:08:00 joshualwilliams1981 said:
have you seen the PC requirements for batman?


Today 09:08:40 joshualwilliams1981 said:
o CPU: Intel single core 3 Ghz or AMD equivalent
o Memory: XP = 1 GB, Vista = 2GB
o GPU: Shader Model 3 NVidia 6600 or ATI 1300 or higher

o CPU: Pentium D 3Ghz or AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (Dual core)
o Memory: XP = 2GB, Vista = 3GB
o GPU: NVidia 7900 GT or higher
Enhanced for multi-core


Today 09:09:26 joshualwilliams1981 said:
not sure what the exact error message you are getting when you download a program. I would need an undoctored screenshot.


Today 09:11:04 joshualwilliams1981 said:
u should probably go buy an xbox 360 if you want to game. Sounds like your cup of tea. I prefer 60 fps and resolutions much higher than a xbox 360 can deliver however. But to each, their own.


Today 09:23:23 joshualwilliams1981 said:
well you have 2 options. If you wanna play batman, arkham asylum you're going to spend around 700 dollars on a pc that even comes close. That doesn't include the monitor. or buy an xbox for 250 and spend 60 dollars on games. PC games are cheaper and run better with higher resolutions and higher frames per second. BUT you're spending more on the initial system.

As for the client just logging out, i've got a couple of questions about your environment.

Are you using a firewall or anti-virus software?
What time of internet connection are you using?
Are you connecting from your netbook to a wireless router, or using a cable?


Today 10:16:49 joshualwilliams1981 said:
I'm so done with this. There is only one steam log, you don't want this issue to be fixed. You've given me incomplete information multiple times and all I'm trying to do is help you get your problem resolved. I've tried to help you and you're very combative. I understand why your issue goes unresolved. I'm a patient guy. I deal with sales people all day long. You have been the most frustrating client I've ever tried to help. Thanks for the IP by the way. I wish you all the luck in your future endeavors. Go back to your game boy.


Today 10:17:59 joshualwilliams1981 said:
your user name changed twice by the way who is fullmetalharlot


Today 10:22:25 joshualwilliams1981 said:
you're very rude.


Today 10:23:30 joshualwilliams1981 said:
part of the problem could be that you have all these misc. configurations of steam running on your pc.
@joshualwilliams1981: btw, now that I have pasted the posts you deleted, whatever place you are Tech Support for, I really have _no_ desire to deal with.

Your posts are full of more rudeness, sureliness and Prime A Douche Baggery than anything I could muster.

I do not believe you really wanted to help me, as most of your posts were peppered with attacks on me.

It is kind of nice that you said you needed the logs, but did not actually say why--even though I asked why.

Deleting them now so others do not see them.
I dunno--I generally regarded a lot of what he was saying as though he only considered me a child and somebody who had no clue as to what occurred with computers. Am I the only one here?

I honestly do not think he was taking me seriously at all. Otherwise, he would have answered my questions, stopped insulting my abilities with the computer (regardless of whether they exist or not--not something a Tech Support Person does) and would have stopped complaining I was not telling him enough.

Tech Support is not a one way occurrence.
If steam is getting so many problems for you on your PC, then maybe you should purchase and install your games using another method.

There are other ways, you know.
@GadgetArcrep fair enough--that works. Though, the main reason I was on in the first place was because I wanted to try the Batman AA Demo. However, it would appear that my computer is not powerful enough for it--or something. I do not actually recall the specs being listed in the Steam Store, and I have no idea where @joshualwilliams1981 dug up that list of specs. A hyperlink to a reference would have been nice.

But yeah--looks like you are right, another method will be required for this stuff. I just wish I could figure out what was wrong. I mean, so far I got @xoaks who helped quite a bit (which reminds me, @xoaks, I owe you some respect)--and @joshualwilliams1981 who came across as an elitist bastard, despite only having an entry level position at a firm that sounds roughly like a much of spammers (what else would call themselves, "website marketers"?)--everything else was just posts saying I am a liar or something--between Steam just working or it not being available on Linux.
Sweet jesus Katrina. One problem is that you said yourself that you only know ONE other person using steam and that he hates it. So much for a perspective on "how you know NOBODY actually uses steam". Its clear that from the thousands of other people on...steam forums, that many people don't have problems.

But lets get into specifics. Your title is eyecatching in the fact that you make a generalized statement that is so wrong that people check out your post. If this is some sort of marketing strategy its working. If you are just pissed at steam, its also working!

Now, the real problem is that either your OS (but you're going to say nothing is wrong with it, just like XP users will say the same), or the "platinum rating" on WINE. Maybe you should just use virtualbox, or some other VM.

I have no clue how Steam functions on Wine, but I also dont fathom there is a great deal of support for Steam linux builds. Furthermore, whether the game works properly in a linux environment using Wine with Steam is a separate topic. Im sure for some games they work fine. But thats not the point right?

The main problem you are having is with the steam platform itself in wine. I still think its somewhere between your config/build of Fedora and wine itself, however F'd that might sound. Anyways, heres to the future where all apps work on all OS.
@KatrinaTheLamia Good luck anyways in finding something that works for you.

i also have to commend the amount of patience you have here, trying to get through the useless comments to find some measly solution.

apologies for not being able to help myself, not being a linux user (let alone wine user), myself.
Wow, that was a ton of updates to this thread, woke up, saw I had 109 updates to my subscriptions, haha.
Not reading all that, but I assume you were joking when you wanted proof I use Steam all the time?
@EarthboundX Of course she was. She says the only proof she'll accept that steams works is if we PHYSICALLY GO TO WHERE SHE IS TO SHOW HER. Because we're all going to Shop up pictures and fake videos, as we're all steam conspirators.

Last point I care to refer to in this thread as it jumped.. stupidly large numbers of posts whilst I was asleep and at classes is that the "Proof that Wine says Steam works" that I was talking about
Came from a link that YOU, miss Katrina, posted.

"BTW: It is not Wine BTW, it is Steam: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=1554"

From that page, it says: "What works:

What does not:
Nothing that I know of.

What was not tested:
Minor features "

You keep referring to the platinum rating that Wine gave Steam as some big flag saying that it's steam's fault things aren't working, without taking into account what exactly it means that Steam earned a platinum rating..
It means when they tested it, everything worked.
Therefore making their test rather irrelevant to your situation as obviously your results are nothing like those of the WINE people had. So the fact that yours doesn't work is an isolated situation that in no way reflects upon the masses as a whole.
So unless you're going to accuse WineHQ of shoopin' up some screenshots as well.. You gave the proof that it works yourself.
What the hell? Tl.dr; Steam isn't designed for non-Windows based operating systems.

Plenty of people play it, and plenty of people aren't having issues with it.

@KatrinaTheLamia here, love. This won't do a damn thing to help, but you'll at least get what you wanted at the first.

you guys are such nubs cant you see atroll for what it is? every naswer givin is tossed aside as either a: faked or b: a conspiracy or c: not what was asked for

you cant answer a trolls questions because the question changes with each correct answer until the original question is lost from memory. heres a secret i went and googled all of the terms bandied about here by this op and guess what all of the fancy pants os names and other parts are found on the first google page the search string wine/steam issues.

was a good read but the troll was too much inot themselves to stay unattached to the topic and ran off the victims and the techs woth combatitive replies and lies. I DONT BELIEVE YOU COPY PASTA"D the techs replies i believe you made them up typed them up and then added your own comments under the poor guys name. talk abou tthe kettle calling the pot black.

dont feed trolls guys its not healthy.

btw i use steam everyday and so so about 50 people i know personally (in a whisper; W e own a SteamCafe wink wink nudge) and our customers can come in and log onto steam with thier log in info and play thier games with thier stat tracking and other personal settings being kept on the steam servers for that very purpose, and we use linux too becuase it was free and we get excellent customer support because we are not internet wanna be trolls who are out to give everything a bad name becuase they just cant let people be they have to drag everyone down inot he muck so everyone feels like they do IE a piece of dog crap thats stepped on over and over.

so out of all this we now know that the OP is a troll that there is no problem with wine and steam and that the op has no clue how to game online or offline on a pc.

and also that a true troll never gives up the ghost until EVERYONE calls it for what it is ...bullshit
- @Avs I "know" this. Like I have "known" many things in the past. Many of the things I have "known" in the past have been proven _wrong_. I have been begging for this to also be the case. This item that I "know" is wrong.

Now, you have mentioned my configuration an builds of Fedora and Wine may be screwed up. I have mentioned many times throughout this thread that this may very well be the case--and have asked for a proper configuration of my system. Only @xoaks has bothered trying to give this. Which on a positive note, @xoaks' help has gotten it to work better--just not at a state that it is usuable.

I will grab VirtualBox--however, I have yet to have had any success install Windows onto a Virtual Box machine. I will try this again shortly.

- @EarthboundX Well, either I need proof, or I will require faith that it works. I somehow doubt simply believing Steam will work will do anything to make it work. Without proof that it operates, I should have no reason to believe that it operates. If I have not observed anything that indicates that it operates in the manner you say it does, why should I believe it does?

- @ComradeRavenhawk I find it hilarious that it was _you_ that brought up the notion of conspiracy. I mostly just regarded it as an in joke that I was never let in on. Not some sort of secret destructive plot against me or something. Kind of funny how this seems to be your take on this. I do not consider it a conspiracy, as much as some wide spread in joke that I am not part of.

I find it kind of hilarious how you guys seem to all talk like it works. However, when i say, "get somebody in Edmonton to show me", you all start to get sheepish about doing so. Saying that such is not an option.

Oh right--your quote of me, saying that Wine does not work.

Well, my thoughts on the matter are--in that case it means the functionality of Steam on my computer should be the same on Windows. If _this_ is what it works as with, "no Wine related problems, i works just like on Windows". At this point, I look, it does not work on my system--so my conclusion is, this is how it also works the same as under windows. Is this "logic" a little to hard for you to follow?

It is also kind of hilarious that you guys somehow assume that I gather my resources to automatically be better than your resources, and not at about the same level.

- @ShadowofNobody oh--we got one of you tl;dr bastards. Please, go kill yourself. If you are not prepared to read up on a subject, but comment on it anyways, you need to shoot yourself. In the head. Until you are dead.

- @MikeyPK oh here we go--it has been far too long until this post occurred. It is pretty typical in a thread, where somebody is frustrated with something not working and nobody is bothering to help them. Generally the person having issues is going to go all out on a rampage on why it does not work, and then somebody is going to say they are trolling.

There are two ways I could take this accusation of trolling:

1 : One common method of trolling, where I bullshit everything I have said, just to piss off the people involved. I am going to have to say this: the complete lack of verified game plays on my profile generally confirms this.

2 : Another common method of trolling, going into a cathedraal and pointing out, why exactly their god is not real. Pointing out issues and inconsistancies in the Bible, and in the world outside the Bible (bonus points if you point out that the Bible has a method, dictated by the Prophet Eliyah, on proving that God exists--and they Christian fails this at every turn. Generally something to especially rub into the faces of the people who say you cannot prove God, when the Old Testiment gives a method to do so). I am generally regarding these issues I am pointing out with Steam to be similar to pointing out issues to a form of religion in that religions place of worship.

Oh and here we go, a summary of my responses to proof: "a: faked or b: a conspiracy or c: not what was asked for"

First off, I hate how people are putting me as trying to say this is some sort of heinous conspiracy. I have stated numberous times it is more like an injoke. Referring to stuff like All Your Base, Joey Staggs, though not quite as bad as Goatse. While it is a common gag to ninja link people to Goatse, I am a little shy to mention a "Goatse Conspiracy"

Let us go over the proof given:

Photos : I am somehow a maniac for saying this stuff cannot be faked with tools on most desktops.

Videos : Right! There are _no_ fake Videos out there! Thanks for clearing this up.

Statistics : There is a saying, "Lies, Damn Lies and statistics". Just because I hear a statistic, I am not going to throw away some knowledge of something I have observed going along. If the statistics corolates with something I have observed, then I am going to believe them. If a statistic does not follow what I believe, I will look into it, to see if there is truth on the Statistic. Statistics alone, are not proof.

Help getting my system set up : @xoaks has done this. I have thanked him for it, even though it did not work. How nice of you to miss this one moment where I did say somebody helped me here.

Pirating Windows and running it in a Virtual Machine : Well, a VMWare link was given. However it requires some form of sign up to it. I asked what I was signing up for--I got no answer on this. I do not have any desire to take over the Internet ith log in accounts everywhere. I will be trying to set it up in Virtual Box again. I have yet to get Winows operational in Virtual Box, but you know what? At these constant complaints that I am not bothering to bother trying your "proof", I will do it anyways.

Installing Windows as a full OS on my computer: Why? I have said many times that I cannot figure out why or how Windows operates in any manner. Though my opinion is this is true for most people. If I were to run Windows, it likely would be full of a large amount of Spyware and Viruses, that Holly here would be a danger to other computers. Yush, I am aware that viruses and spyware are available for Linux. I even mention one way that a virus in Wine can infect stuff outside Wine (that being putting 02h into the eax register). So it is not so much a form of arrogance that I am inherintly safe on Linux. It is just on Linux I have a better idea of how to deal with such issues easier.

Another issue here is that a Pirated copy of Windows is required in many of these solutions. I guess I will try this--though I can imagine I will then have errors based on the Pirated version. You know what? Going to try this in a Virtual Machine. I do not imagine better results, but I will try it.

In the case of needing to purchase Windows--at this point, I am going to start asking for decent cookbooks for koolaid and apple sauce recipes that I can buy along with this Windows purchase.

Upgrading my computer: Well, I accepted this. Once the minimum standards for Batman AA were given, I generally gave up on getting Batman AA to run. However, I recall Half Life running on a refurbished Acer that I had purchased in 1998. So--this is not going to solve my problem here.

As a solution I gave, I find it kind of odd that nobody has bothered with this. Apparently there is a large amount of Steam users here in Edmonton--though for some arbitrary reason, they cannot meet up with me, I really do not care where, to show them downloading a program and launching it. The fact that nobody desires to do this only makes me _more_ supicious.


I find it kind of odd your choice of words with my recovery of the tech support workers posts in this thread as "Copy Pasta". Does not really show a lot of elegance on your part. In fact much of your language in your post relating around the syntax you have used and word choices generally denote that you may be a troll yourself, trying to piss me off.

You need to understand, I have been trying to get this running since about August. Nothing I have tried so far works. Only one solution left to do (as nobody seems to desire to give me a demo of this actually working). I am very frustrated here. Especially in that nobody believes that I have an issue with Steam. When I go over it, either I am lying or trolling. Not a fun thing to constantly hear.

Anybody who has it set up so thread subscriptions have posts go to their email box can see them.

However, if you have not seen these prior to me posting them here, you have no obligation to believe they exist. As I really have no other proof of the matter.


I also find it odd that you credit the fact that the nature of my query has changed as this thread has gone on. I generally took this as me learning based on the responses others have made. The reason that my query has changed over the nature of the thread, is I have learned that it may not have been the correct query to get my answer. So yush, the original question is gone. We have moved on. Take this as my lame attempt to try to learn from my mistakes. Perhaps I learned the wrong lesson from my mistakes. However, at least I am considering the lessons in the event.


I find it odd that your only response as proof to my problem, is something that I am not able to replicate in any way--and thus I need to accept it. Clearly I am a mad woman, as I do not believe what I am told, simply because I am told it--without any manner to verify it.


Look, if I am wrong, I can be proven wrong. I think the ratio of debates on the internet I actually win is 1:5. That meaning, for every debate I am in, I win one of them to every five I lose.

And guess what? When I am wrong, I adjust my behaviours and opinions. Part of the reason I do not shut up on these things is if I say something wrong, I desire to be corrected--so I can stop believing the wrong thing.

There only appear to be one solution left to try--that is Windows on a Virtual Box. As you all fail to provide an answer to my Wine issues and generally the idea that on something as wide spread as Steam does not have any body in Edmonton who are willing to say, "Bullshit Katrina! This works, here is proof of the matter!" kind of strikes me as more than a little odd. Especially when none of you really see this as an option. When I have stated numberous times show this to me, and I will STFU.

In the case I do not STFU about it--well, then you will have all the proof you desire on the idea that I am a troll.

I have a saying--give somebody enough rope, and they will hang themselves. Here is your opportunity to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am a troll. Get somebody to demo this for me here in Edmonton. If it works, and I still complain, then your accusations of me being a troll will be justified. Get a few witnesses. Take a few pictures. Heck, if need be, we can get Red Octagon Studios to film the matter.

Here we go the demo can consist of these details:
* Somebody in Edmonton demoing this for me.
* a few people witnessing the matter--preferably neutral people. People who have nothing at stake here.
* a film crew that I have even named, and talk to regularly--Red Octagon Studios. I am on good conditions with Yami and H4ll0W33N. So if they produce something with me stating that I am wrong, and Steam does in fact work, I am generally going to note this as being legit. As oppose to others filming the same thing... which may be possible to fake.


There we go.
@xoaks whoops--I need to stop calling you male, sorry.

I will download it I guess--but the specs I was given by that alleged tech support person generally note it will not run on my computer.
Do you have xfire?
@KatrinaTheLamia Wow, if that's really how you feel, I'm sorry, but that's just pathetic.

I've never seen 1 million dollars, I guess that much money doesn't exist.

Don't take this the wrong way, but do you have some form of autism? I have it myself, so I can see the signs.
Alrighty, one more _clarification_ for you. My point as far as your having us "get somebody in Edmonton to show you" is that that request is utterly unreasonable to request a random sectioning of the internet to do for you. Why? Because the internet, in case you didn't notice, is quite largely spread geographically. And while there may be many users of steam who are in Edmonton, you then must narrow that down to "Users of steam, in Edmonton, who go on gamerdna, who've seen this post, who have the time and CARE enough to prove to some random person on the internet who seems completely determined to disbelieve in it's working anyway that it works" narrows the number of people quite a bit. Even if you cut out the caring part.

And once again, I'm not saying that photos and videos can't be faked. I'm saying that it's retarded to assume that ALL the videos and pictures of a program that is the large money making engine of a gaming corporation used by at least hundreds of thousands of people every day are fake. So their stock numbers are fake too?
If you say only that one film group could possibly not have a stake in the subject and film it. Why don't you ask them, as you talk to them regularly? I've never so much as heard of them.

And, minus those who accuse you of trolling, we haven't said "You have no issues with steam" we've said "Your issues with steam are an isolated incident."
I can't help fix your problem as I'm not a red hat. I don't have linux. I've used unix only via telnet type programs when I was doing C++. Therefore I'd have no idea how to properly configure your OS to run said non-native program. I'm only addressing the fact that you're making wide-spread, general, an incredibly ignorant statements based on insufficient empirical evidence.
It's like a scientist trying to say that something is only proven if he does a particular experiment to prove it, while ignoring all scientific journals and other experiments that prove simple scientific constant. Like if a man was trying to prove that two objects of different masses, in the absence of air resistance etc, will fall at the same acceleration due to gravity regardless of their size. And then he sets up an experiment with a bowling ball and a feather and drops them onto a fan, pointed upwards. Then says he disproved Galileo because the feather blew away.
Steam isn't running on your system. This means that your control situation, to stay with my metaphor, is set up improperly. I don't know HOW due to the lack of linux knowledge thing. But it's not hard to accept that just because the individual situation doesn't work, doesn't mean that in the proper situation, or in this case most situations, that it does work.

You keep saying how you're "Totally open to being proven wrong" and then set up your accepted ways of that happening to be so asinine and unreasonable that you KNOW the given group of individuals you're talking will be unable to do so.

If you check my profile on steam, you will find that I play games on my steam, that they load up through my steam client, and that I play quite a lot. 30+ hours a week on most games I play. I don't know why so many people are even bothering trying to get this person to see that their clients are working when this person OBVIOUSLY does not care. If they are having an issue that has not been resolved at this point, then they should move on and try some other way. It's sad to see this many posts on this and half of them are people just getting frustrated at trying to tell someone that this thing works when that person believes it does not. They're being hardheaded and are just trying to fluster everyone else who even graces this post with a response.
And by the way~ If I lived in Canada and had the time to drive over to Edmonton, I would, in fact, show you that it works on my Vista (blah) driven computer. Unfortunately, I live in Southern Illinois and do not have the time nor the money to drive all the way to Edmonton to give you a little demonstration showing that Steam does in fact work. I have two or three friends who have steam and live in Canada, but I will not waste their time and ask them to show you that it works. You can add me on Steam and I can load up a game while on your friend's list to show you that it works, but from what I've read I doubt that you will believe that it does. And since any form of recording will be considered "doctored", there's no point in recording a video either, even though I'd be more then willing to share my name and show my face on said video, showing that my steam does work.
- @avs (btw, your comment is not showing up) -- I am generally going to have to say, that yes, this is part of why people still use Windows. Another part is a form of circular logic provided by many schools and businesses. That is:

* Most schools only teach Windows stuff because that is what Businesses use.
* Most businesses only use Windows stuff becase that is what schools teach.

There are many other issues as to why people use Windows instead of Linux.

I have stated musings in the past of a system being design as a form of native layer or virtual machine to run games, regardless of the target platform. A system similar to the JVM, .Net/Mono or Parrot, but optimised for game use. Part of this system would include a package system like what Steam suggests it has. Another part would be something that handles decent multiplayer and community support.

I would work on such a system myself, but at the current stage of the game, I do not have the resources required to get such a system operational. I also have a few other projects I desire to do in the meantime.

Though, it is something I am definitely considering.

- @xoaks not yet--been procrastinating installing that. However, I prolly will sometimes this weekend.

- @EarthboundX Well, when I was eleven they put me on an assessment ward to figure out what was going on in my head. They ran the tests to figure out if I fall into the spectrum of mental illnesses that include Autism, Aspergers and OCD.

Largely their tests were inconclusion--as while I was found to be deficient in one of the five areas for that family of mental illnesses (I do not know which: it should be noted that the evaluation noted that in the area of social skills, no major deficiency was found), they could not really pin point what was wrong with me. Dr Blackman noted that I was too clever to really be pinpointed. Once they thought they had gotten it, I had changed to something else, that showed that evaluation was not entirely accurate.

I was given Aspergers as a blanket mental illness--however that has been dropped in the last year due to lack of supporting evidence.

I have three official mental illnesses--two of which really show no evidence supporting them. The third should not be in any right be considered a mental illness, and is generally a very normal concept to be. The third current mental illness evaluation has been led to show misdiagnosis in the areas of Aspergers. As many people are given Aspergers until this more correct diagnosis is given.

The other two mental illnesses, IMO, were caused by excessively poor diet. As I pretty much lived on fast food as a Teenager, then was homeless for seven years after I turned nineteen. During that time, I was unnecessarily medicated for those two other mental illnesses, aggravating the situation being displayed.

I have since read up on others experiences with Bipolar and Schizo Affective mental illness, and have found, while I display some concepts associated with those, they generally are not as serious as the others who are afflicted with it--not anywhere near as serious.

Since I have been put on a proper regiment of medication/treatment for the third current medical evaluation, giving myself a proper diet (trying to go vegan--though that is fairly hard) and trying to get a fair amount of exercise--any sort of signs of those mental illnesses have been reduced greatly.

So, I have given my side of the matter--what is your side?

- @ComradeRavenhawk Simile fail.. here is why.

First off: it being published in journals is no reason to believe it works. In some cases it is inconsequential whether or not believe that the device proposed works. Such as the case with Steam for me for a little while. It was inconsequential to my day to day matters on whether Steam worked or not. I did not bother to try to use it. Once I did try to run Steam... any of the eight configurations I have done failed. The idea of "it being in a scientific journal .'. it must be true" is just as much garbage as "it as written on cave walls by some drunkard thousands of years ago, .'. it must be true"

To credit most science journals however, there is a large amount of scrutiny on what gets published in there.

However, one of the key things in those items, is that they denote what they did to come to their findings. If need me, I will list the configurations I tried, so you can note what I am doing wrong--if this helps.

Second off: any respectable scientist would point out to the scientist trying to state a fan negates the constant acceleration of gravity (that being ~9.8m/s**2 last I checked BTW), would have many people simply state that this scientist had negated to count for friction in his experiment. Normally pointing out that the Air Drag on a Feather is higher than that on a Bowling Ball.

In comparison, you guys have simply said, "it just works", and when I stated that I have not found this to be true, you stated this as an isolated incident.

Air Drag is something that is taught in elementary school. The fact that none of you have bothered to point out what "elementary school concept" (to continue your simile) I am missing, kind of is suspicious.

Now--I have since dropped the requirement to have them be somebody who comes to GamerDNA. They do not even have to be somebody who has read this article. The list are:

* Person uses Steam
* Person is in Edmonton
* Person desires to be able to demo to verify that it works and operates to somebody who has not seen Steam in action, and for some reason cannot get it running on her computer.

That does not seem like too much to me--but apparently it is. Though, I suspect it is because you are adding far too many requirements to the matter.

The list of stuff I added in my post on how to do this, was mostly for _your_ guys safety. With those additional condition

- @SeraphArc okay--so what you are saying is:

"You do not believe Steam works. I have no desire to prove that Steam works in the fashion I say it does, even though you have said numberous times that once demoed you will STFU. So I cannot be bothered to talk to you." -- that is it right? I mean that is how I read it--not certain if this is what you meant, so I am just checking to confirm.

Also part of why I am sort of not saying, "Anywhere in Canada" is because that is just a little ludicrous to ask. As well, the only country bigger than Canada is Russia. So suggesting somebody in the Maritimes to come over to demo this to me is more than a little daft.

As per adding you on Steam...

@KatrinaTheLamia I was just wondering, part of some types of autism symptoms are having a hard time empathizing with others, which I have noticed from various posts.

I've been told I have both autism, and aspergers, I've worked a lot at it though, so most people I meet can't really tell I have them.
@EarthboundX I am not certain I agree with that. Understanding where people are coming from (Empathy) and agreeing with their conclusions are two separate things.

It is just how nice I am generally varies. The continuum on how nice I am, generally falls on the following continuum.

+1.0 Common pitfall somebody is having issues with, I will likely try to be polite as I walk them through this.

-1.0 Well, the only example I can think of being all the way on -1.0 caustic is when somebody is talking about suicide. My response usually is, "do not talk about it--just kill yourself. If you are going to kill yourself do it. Stop whining about it". This is not a case of lack of empathy. Back before I was fifteen (and while I was seventeen/eighteen and living with Robert, a person I regard as a complete bigot), I was fairly suicidal. However, I did not whine about it. Generally most people had no idea I as trying this. There were a few times the police had to intervene--however I was not doing that whole emo crap. If I was going to try, I would just go out and attempt it. I would not whine about it online, or talk about it. Though, I will note, many people today would prolly wish I had succeeded XD XD XD

i1.0 Situation does not regard me--any care I could have is imaginary.
You missed the point of the metaphor entirely, or rather more accurately, are purposely ignoring it for the sake of derailing it with more irrelevant rants. The "Elementary concept" you're missing is that it's a windows program and you're using it on linux.
It should work on linux in other situations, apparently, but as I said, I have no expertise in linux and, you have apparently talked to people who have and still been unable to fix it for you. While theirs are still operable.
My point with the journals etc, is that if you have countless testimony that something works in all kinds of situations (That is _indisputably_ proven by literally THOUSANDS of "experiments"), that you can not say that none of those are true purely because your single experiment doesn't work. Because your individual circumstances, given how far out on the fringe they are, can not speak for the other, more normal circumstances.
And I did not say "It just works." I said it works WHERE ITS SUPPOSED TO, ON WINDOWS. I made no statements about Wine. WINE said it works there, on the link _you_ posted for me. If they're inaccurate, take it up with them. But Wine doesn't actually speak for the windows world. And wine on one version of linux doesn't speak for wine on the others, thus why their list listed on that page by Linux build, not all of which were platinum, because compatibility varies rapidly according to the OS, which is something that is unstable with linux builds as there are so many of them and so many configurations.
You said "In some cases" being published is inconsequential. But this isn't some random theory put forth by a individual. This is something that is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
There are currently some 84 thousand people logged onto steam at this rather late hour of the day. It's kind of pathetic that you have the inflated ego to think that hundreds of thousands of people are all STUPID enough to be logged onto this program, that according to you doesn't work at all for any of them: tens of thousands of them online at any given moment of the day with the current being on the low end. You, of course, seeing it doesn't work for you, say that all these people just constantly log onto this program all the time so they can see it crash. Or something.
You're making a completely irrational statement which is why people assume you're a troll: Because having no solid reason to believe something so utterly ludicrous yet purporting that you believe it and ignoring any and all proof to the contrary with such utter conviction that it makes some bible-thumpers I know of look wishy-washy would mean you'd either be a troll or utterly daft. If you take a balloon filled with normal air, tie a boulder to it, throw it in a pool and watch it sink, that doesn't prove that that balloon, minus weight, would still sink in water. A bunch of people post videos, take pictures, etc, etc, of their balloons floating along on the pool and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS LYING. And The fallacy with your calling this a "Terrible in joke" is that all terrible injokes on the internet have an equal number of people at least saying "GOD THAT IN JOKE IS SO RETARDED/ANNOYING/GROSS" than you do posting it. If steam didn't work it would be rather large news by now. Instead its making Valve oodles of money. Also, in case you weren't informed, the business world doesn't do "In jokes."
And Valve's made between 3/4million and ~1 million dollars in game sales on steam.

Also you CANT cut the criteria down to just
"* Person uses Steam
* Person is in Edmonton
* Person desires to be able to demo to verify that it works and operates to somebody who has not seen Steam in action, and for some reason cannot get it running on her computer."
As the SOMEWHERE in that chain MUST be someone who has read this article to inform them that the need was there. And, given that there are a maximum of 215 people who viewed this article if you said only one view per person, (Which, go figure, is probably rather inaccurate) that is your maximum pool of people who are either A) In a nearby portion of canada or B) Someone who is elsewhere but knows someone in the area who can be bothered to waste their time doing such.
As regardless of what you call it IS a waste of their time. Even if they show you their steam works and you're convinced to stop being asinine, all they have achieved is removing one person's small portion of self-inflicted, incredibly purposeful ignorance.
And since the internet is rather large and the chances of those criteria are rather low...

So, since you like to reply to posts by taking some tiny part of a metaphors therein or such and act as though it is the focus of the entire post and ignore all the points that actually meant something, I'll just put this in a single, simple question:
What rational reason do you have to believe that your non-working instance of steam can be extrapolated to say that no instances of steam work?
"I haven't seen it." Isn't a rational reason. I've never personally seen a rocket launch but have no rational reason to believe that we haven't sent men to space. I've also never seen a ship made of metal floating, but have no reason to believe that aircraft carriers are made of anything else.
I wish aircraft carriers didn't float :<
@xoaks Why?
I have friends in the navy, I'd prefer they stay floating. :c
@ComradeRavenhawk I'm in the navy, I prefer they sink.
Pretty much what I said was that you don't want to believe that steam works, so there is no point in trying to prove to you that is does. I don't think that someone has to go to your house to prove to you that steam works. I think you're ignorant to assume that every video showing steam works is going to be doctored just to play some "joke" on you. I think some people don't have the time to do that. I, for one, don't. I need to work and don't think that it's pertinent to my time on trying to doctor a video. Some people do have a life other then being on the computer. And to add my on steam, seeing as how your steam works, but does not allow you to download/play games on it, go to the friend's list and add SolArc or, easier yet, the community page and look up [x^]:.Volte.:
Average words per post in this thread: (wait for it....


Nah, the lack of empathy comes from what I've seen.

It doesn't seem very hard for you to dismiss other people's opinions and feelings.

Which is why I have a hard time talking to you, you seem to always assume you are right, and everyone else is always wrong.

If that's not from autism, they doesn't say much good about you, sorry.
I myself have all 3 (aspergers, Autism, and OCD) But I have a different form of autism that my brother doesn't.
@ComradeRavenhawk : just a few flaws here:

* you pretty much not my entire post as "long rants". This generally leads me to believe this is a variation of TL;DR. Generaly I have no respect for TL;DR posts.

* you also seem to be making the logical fallacy that the link you gave is somehow more proof than the link I gave. I generally am trying to avoid doing the same. The link I gave says Wine runs like it does on Windows. Your only country to this is another link meant to negate my link.

* While I did suggest that these 84 thousand people logging into Steam are stupid. It was not because the software did not work. Instead, I suggested it was because they were taking part in some manner of large internet joke. Somehow, this makes me egotistical. Should I be really egotistical when I call the people who have spammed All Your Base a few years ago are retarded for doing that? Under your logic, this seems to be the case. Please tell me how this is not the case--as well, I seem to be _really_ Egotistical in that I consider the many people who take part in such jokes like All Your Base, Rick Rolling, Goatse, and all those other internet memes as just a little retarded when they take it too seriously. I mean, myself, I enjoy a good rick roll. Though many people would tell me that is stupid. Are they egotistical?

* Also, I find it hilarious, that you equate _me_ to a bible thumper, when the only proof _you_ have given is text on a web page. I have pointed out, that if somebody can personally demonstrated this to me, I would STFU. Though the only proof you have offered me... is text in a book (well, web page). Somehow... this makes me a Bible thumper. I mean, yes, some of it is _really_ fancy text. I mean video, woo! Sound byte, even more woo! And a page listing statistics.

Meanwhile, I must be a bible thumper as in a few of the cases where I have tried to reconstruct the situation and have failed. I have asked others to reconstruct the situation, and have been told that I should simply have faith because the text on a web page says it operates. I was not aware such a conviction made me a bible thumper.

* Next off. You forget the famous quote--often attributed to Einstien, though it may not have been him, "Billions of people cannot be prove right. However, it takes only one person to prove me wrong". This is one of the basis of modern Science.

* BTW, you have not used a metaphor. You included "like" or "as" into every one of the comparisons that you have gave. This makes it so they are not metaphors. Instead, they are now Similes.

* You _similes_ on the matter have mostly been showing that my version of the experiment have been rather retarded and missing out some elementary element that most people could see as having issues.

* Also your balloon experiment does not seem to work here. You do not give units for the balloon. What the balloon is filled with. As Carbon Dioxide filled balloons do not float in a Nitrogen based atmosphere. In order for a balloon to float, its contents need to less than the area it is displacing. I am certain with a big enough balloon filled with a less dense gas, such as Helium or Hydrogen, or a smaller boulder, the balloon will float, regardless. I figured that is how many Zeppelins operated. Though, I have not actually observed a Zeppelin, so, there is a chance they could be something imaginary, or they could work in a different fashion.

* And yes, I am working on setting up a system to test Steam in windows. The Ninth setup I will be doing will be a pirated copy of Windows XP running in a Virtual Box instance. Though, I suspect this may not work for the reason it is a pirated copy of Windows.

* Also, I have no idea why my asking for somebody to demo this for me, requires them to have seen this thread. This is not really something I understood. Do people on Steam not talk to each other? Are the people in Edmonton unable to communicate with you on Steam? I mean, you do know people in Edmonton on Steam, right? Somebody here does, they stated that there was no issues with Steam in Edmonton. This means they are aware of people in Edmonton using Steam. Is there no reason you cannot ask them. I mean, even if it is a friend of a friend, you can work through the grape vine to track down these people in Edmonton that you "know of", and tell them, "hey, somebody in Edmonton has been having a few issues running Steam. Could you demo it for her?". Apparently this is somehow not an option here.

* Ignorance is best remove one person at a time.

* Okay, you have never seen such items in your life. Is there any reason you consider having them have a place in your reality? I mean, while I love the idea of travelling in space, it is not something that affects my day to day life. Therefor, it is not an item in my reality. It is a nice day dream--but it is not something I consider real. I have seen metal ships that float, so it is a part of my reality. This does not mean, it should be a part of _your_ reality. There is no reason any of my experiences and events are more real than your experiences and events, except unless I can prove them to to you. Until I can offer proof that I do not speak madness, I should not desire to be thought of as not speaking madness.

- @SeraphArc well, perhaps I can try running Steam in Chromium or Firefox again and add people to the community. Maybe a way for me myself to go out and get somebody to demo it. Since despite people here stating they know people in Edmonton have been having no issues with Steam, but cannot direct them in my way.

Now, I would like to point out something here:

You took a situation, where your own observations, regardless of what the person talking about the situation, has shown you a different out come for you on the situation.

I have said numberous times, if I have a demo of it, I will STFU on the matter. However, your own observations of the matter have suggested to you, this is not the case.

You guys have said, numberous times that Steam operates in the fashion you say it does, but my own observations have suggested, this is not the case.

Just think on this.

- @EarthboundX well, opinions are opinions. I generally regard my opinions as just as valid as other's opinions. As per feelings. No, I do not discard them. Disagreeing with what people feel on a matter is not the same with discarding them.

I think you may be confusing Empathy with Sympathy. Empathy merely is understanding where somebody is coming from. Sympathy is where you give a damn.

Also, others are not always wrong. I have even stated on a number of occasions that I am more than likely to admit I am wrong in an online debate. I even gave the ratio of this occurrence earlier in this thread as 1:5. That being for every time I am proven right, I am proven wrong five times.

Generally I tend to regard what other's say as just as valid as what I say--you just have to prove it. However, as I say what I am saying in a conversation, I am going to say it like it is right... _until_ I am proven wrong. Once I am proven wrong, I will admit it (as I have in a few other threads btw).

I still know how to say, "I am wrong here", you just need to give me warrant to say it.

I am not certain if you mean Empathy or Waffling.
Syntax fail on my part. I mean that the boulder be smaller.. not the balloon be filled with smaller boulders. Just to clarify.
Like I said in the post about LTTP, I will no longer trying to debate/argue with you, since I don't care.

Seems every debate with you is a trap.
Well, plus the fact that I told you Steam works, is proof.

I'm gonna unfollow this.
Ah--so your answer to this is apathy. Let us keep in mind the score on the debates on this site.

LttP: Draw. I have not been proven wrong. However I never got to the point where you admitted you were wrong. This was not a win on my part. It did not even end. Most people just stopped caring after a little while and it ended.

Harley Quinn: I lost. I admitted I was wrong on my thoughts of Harley Quinn's new design in this thread.

This debate: still going. Two ways for me to admit I am wrong. Working on one. Will work on the second one tomorrow. I have stated I know I am wrong in this debate numberous times. I just have not found conclusive evidence to confirm this.

As per you saying Steam exists as proof... does this mean that the mind control satellites exist? I mean, that was not you guys... but I consider him just as trustworthy.
I did not give you a TL:DR. I said your posts have a lot of irrelevancies to the point at hand. Like your bit about the zeppelins when you're well aware that by balloon I mean a normal balloon. Also, I said normal air, which is a term that is perfectly acceptable in science classes and such for air that is the kind we breath. Picking at minute details of the post instead of the matter which is being discussed is a matter of deflection that has no place in conversation unless you're trying to avoid answering a question.

Also, just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it's not part of your reality. Was that supposed to be your answer to my question? That your "Rational reason" is that only things you've personally, physically seen are "Part of your reality"?

Those metal boats? I've never seen one. I have friends who spend long stretches of time on them. If they don't float, my friends would be dead. Or the whole world is in on one of your "in-jokes" and WWII is taught totally wrong in schools.

Once again, I've posted links to webpages because that is the only reasonable way you can expect me to give you any proof. You keep saying "You guys know people in Edmonton." I haven't seen anyone say they did. I sure as hell don't. Once again my problem with what you've been saying is generalizations. One person may have said that. If they did, direct those complaints AT THEM. If some random guy says he knows someone in edmonton, that is not a reason to assume that anyone else does. I don't even know where edmonton IS. I know it's in canada only because someone mentioned it.
Also, I didn't counter your link with my link. I countered your link WITH INFORMATION AND DATA FOUND ON YOUR LINK. And THEN posted my link as additional info making another point.
And your page didn't just say "It runs like it does on windows" it says "IT RUNS" which you're trying to say ti doesn't. And the web page you posted has screenshots of various portions of it running.

You keep trying to say the whole thing is some big in-joke, like "All your base" or "Rick-Rolling" and ignored the whole part of my post referring to the money. If it's a joke, how are gaming companies making millions off of it?
And of course Wikipedia loves getting in on those jokes, right?
And mainstream news sources write fake articles about them, of course:
I could probably find some magazines and such to scan as well but you'd just say I must have "doctored them."
For someone who attempts to portray themselves as a scientific individual, you do a wonderful job of enforcing ignorance on yourself as hard as you can.
After skimming this entire thread I would like to give my take on Steam. Steam is a digital software distribution service used to sell games to consumers. Steam's primary objective is most likely to provide convenient sales, while also offering a way to crack down on piracy. Buying a game in steam makes it very hard to pirate.

Steam provides a decent community system involving communication and other tools. Steam attempts to be a hub for PC gaming.

As for Steam not working well in Wine, I just tried reinstalling it myself. The Store and Community sections do not work due to the embedded browser being on the fritz. Also, some fonts are very difficult to read.

I just downloaded Audio Surf and I will play it and report back with how it works in Wine. It is important to note that Audio Surf is a separate program from Wine, so it may not work as well.
I could not get Audio Surf to work. It would load and a white box and the words "Ok" would be displayed slightly off center in the bottom left. The UI here was clearly not as intended, and I could not click anything to continue.
Tell you what. I will record a demo of it working on my computer and I would like for you to watch it. I don't care if you think it's doctored or not; I just want you to watch it. I hope you will not assume it's doctored and will show you that, yes, steam works. While I by no means know how to get it to work on your system, it *does* work on mine. After that, I'm not going to try to reason with you anymore and I'll leave it at that.
- @ComradeRavenhawk Ah okay, good, I was hoping was not a TL;DR.

Now a few points:

* I apologise for missing the "normal" in rather poorly written rant. You appear upset, and I must avoid aggreviating you any further by missing words that you put in.

* Now, your simile experiment does not really display that it is in the balloon's inherent property to float. Deflate the air from the balloon and crumple it up, and it will sink regardless. It is not the balloon that is allowing it to float. It is he displacement. You seem to be self contradictorial here. You are stating in one part that rocks do not float. However, to support other areas, you are saying that ships made out of Rocks (a specific refined kind) can float. You do not realise how contradictorial this is, do you? Stating that adding a rock to a balloon will make it sink. Without taking into account how much air is in the balloon or the shape of the rock. However, you are stating that you regard a form of floating rocks (of a specific refined kind) as a very important part of your reality.

* If I point out something, you need to understand, that perhaps _I_ think it is relevant. Just because _you_ do not think it is relevant does not immediately make it irrelevant. What makes it as you the one to decide what is relevant here? It is kind of funny, I dismiss something as inconclusive, and I am a bible thumper all of a sudden. You dismiss something as not necessary, and it is required to be as completely unnecessary. Why do you have this control over my reality What makes you think this is yours to decide?

* Okay then! Here we go! Let us assume that I just listened to whatever anybody said about what occurs in reality. Let us assume this for a moment. What is it going to do for me? I mean, I am certain this would give me a few more nigerian bank accounts, some snake oil, more than a few bridges and of course the collective powers of the X-men. Yes, people say various things and ideas for how reality works. Many people disagree about it. I am just taking steps to make it so that I am a little more controlling on what I take into account of what really works in this world. This may mean that I may not believe what many other people "know" to be true, but I can live with this.

Just to support this further, I take a rather Dr. Steel approach to what I believe on regards to reality. I just happen to be more restrictive on what I let in.

Just because a million people know it is true, does not make it true. A million people are _just_ as likely to be wrong as one person. The question is, being able to gauge whether or not you are wrong. This goes for whether or not I am in the group of one million, or the group of one. Neither determines I am correct. I just happen to be the only person who holds this.

* As per your metal boats. You give a new clue as to how this has entered your reality. You have a few close personal friends who are on the metal boats. You trust them to tell you the truth about the matter. That is where it enters.

* As per the reality of WWII. Many people do not know this one. I am not going any further down the road here as to not invoke Godwin's Law further. Many people know some of the occurrences. A very rare few know most of what happened. Nobody who knows all of what happened is still alive. Face it: WWII has been long forgotten.

* There have been more than a few people who have posted that, "Steam works just fine in Edmonton". Perhaps not you specifically. In order for them to properly know this it requires a form of proxy similar to your friends on the Metal Boat. You may not have this proxy to knowledge. Others have stated they have.

* I am not even certain if you read anything you write. Okay, you say my link states that it works just like in windows. I am stating based on this posit of it running in my system in a manner like it runs in Windows. It does not run on my sysetm. Ergo, it does not run in windows. You seem to have constantly missed this. You are simply stating it runs. I am saying it runs the same. Suggesting that how I see it as running is the same as how you are seeing it run. I do not like how it is running, and do not see it as a function version of running. But then, I have repeated myself far too much here--if you have not understood the modified form of Socretes Logic I am using here, I will spell it out.

Statement 1: It runs in Wine in a similar manner to how it does in Windows.
Statement 2: It does not function in Wine.
Ergo: It does not function in Windows.

* Okay--now you mention money as proof of its occurrence.

You need to understand, money does not actually exist.

Look into the move from the Gold Standard to the World Bank Standard in the 1920s and 1930s. Look at the set up of the stock market at the same time. Money is useless as proof as it, quite frankly grows on trees.

* I love that you keep stating that I am ignorant because I do not believe others that I do not have any reason to believe. Let us take the reasons for credibility into account:

Wikipedia: about the only area of subject matter I have seen people state Wikipedia as being accurate on is Chemistry. Every other section generally tends to have most people who are knowledgeable in the field complaining about the validity of data. Generally has to do with a large amount of the staff generally not being as knowledgeable as they say they are. There is a long history of staff faking qualifications to get their level of power.

Steam's Stats: Considering this started by me not trusting them in the first place...

Mainstream News Stories: Alright, you got me. Back to watching CNN for information on the world.

Generally even the mainstream news, people will pick and choose what they believe from what they are told anyways. Generally regarded as propaganda mills by most people. Or that is a common accusation thrown around on a mainstream media that publishes something that the reader does not believe.

I may be ignorant, but at least I am a little more choosy on what I choose to believe in my ignorance. I guess I am ignorant with my eyes closed for not blindly believing everything I am given.

* Further more onto your accusation: I tried to get Steam to work--and I still am trying.

- @kettle11 thank you, you have accomplished what nobody else desired to do in a rational manner. You displayed that it worked differently on Windows than on Linux on your system. While your information may not be correct, you are the first one to detail a corresponding relation between steam not functioning on my system, and it potentially being wine. I will consider this information.

Might I ask what system you are using? If it is Debian Sid, Ubuntu or Gentoo, it is information already known. However if it is any other system this is new information I need to consider.

- @SeraphArc why should I regard your recording above others?
The balloon and rock was a metaphor, kiddo. The balloon in this case being Steam. The rock being Linux. Once again you're bringing up inane details that aren't relevant to the metaphor. Nor was there any correlation between the two.
Also, I knew that metal boats float long before I made navy pals. Because physics says the boats float.

There is a difference between not blindly believe everything one is given and deciding the point of view you want to have and then pick and choosing everything you come across to support it. You laugh when I compare you to the bible thumpers. But isn't that exactly what they do?

..You're trying to use Godwin's Law to avoid the fact that Metal Boats were used in World War II?

Wikipedia is good for chemistry, physics, math, engineering.. Really good for most things that aren't political or historical and therefore needing coloring. Video games are far from needing coloring.

Once again, politics vs video games. And PC World isn't CNN. There is no left or right wing "biases" to worry about. They're are engineers and programmers.

The money isn't BACKED by a solid object but it still exists, conceptually, as much as it did back then. It is the exact same capitalist materialist concept that it was back then. They simply pretending it had a purpose beyond upholding class systems via it's "Backing". And while this "Conceptual value" may grow on the trees, the company that makes steam is indeed getting monetary trade from millions of people for their products.

You so called "Socratic" logic has a flaw when combined with your other complains here, however.
Where does point 1 come from?
What makes that website more credible than any other full of engineers looking at the program running in windows?
My operating system is Ubuntu Karmic Koala (9.10). In the past I actually managed to get both Steam and Audio Surf working under Wine. Unfortunately tonight I had more problems.

Good luck with solving your problems and disputes everyone.
Why should you assume all others are fake? Asking me that question is like asking me if your opinion matters.
@ComradeRavenhawk heh, you seem to pick and choose what you want to accept just as much as me.

First off, let us call a spade a spade.

That was _not_ a metaphor.

You used "like" or "as". If you recall Middle School English, an allegory using "like" or "as" is _not_ a metaphor, but a simile. It is amusing that you missed this fact, yet seem to think you can dictate the rules for how such an event operate.

As per my two suggests, those being make the rock smaller, make the balloon bigger or fill the balloon with a different fluid to make it easier to float, let us explore those.

First off this simile can still allow making the balloon bigger. In the case that Valve were to allow it so tha steam was a little bit less choosy about what it required to run. I have made these suggestions for Steam previously in the thread. I mean, the balloon would be more than capable of lifting the rock, if it used QT4... or at least Webkit for displaying its content and made no use of Flash what so ever. Because well, Flash is no longer required on the web (YouTube is even working on setups that can display movies without the use of Flash, via HTML5/CSS3/DOM3). However, since you have explained your simile a little better, I am aware I am not allowed to change the balloon. Since you presented the Simile without labelling the Analogy, I could only guess what the components were.

The next modification of the simile, making the rock Linux, breaks the Simile. If the rock were Wine, perhaps it would work. However, the whole display is how it works on Linux. Making the rock Linux, breaks the analogy in much the same way as a rant by The Tick.

Now, I am going to assume that the whole environment itself is Linux running this application. Wine, somehow tying down Steam makes this analogy fit somehow--actually I am going to not try to think about how broken this simile is. As it does not work to display the situation in any manner more coherent than The Tick describing how Justice is a form of Sandwich Spread.

However, working with Wine being the rock. It can still be made smaller.

Now, I am going to explain how Wine is an environment that makes software run natively. It is not an emulator. If it is, you will need an argument other than, "I do not believe you, .'. your argument is invalid".

First off, ever since the early days of Wine, Wine has allowed Linux programs to link to Windows DLLs for functionality. This has been a feature Wine has allowed since before WineX was created. This makes it being an emulator hard to belive.

Second off, in many people's minds, emulators use manners of sandboxing. Wine however does not. There are many ways that a Wine Aware application can talk to a Linux system. One way I gave was to set the EAX register to 02h. The is the most direct method. However most Wine setups, allow Wine applications access to the user's entire fire system. I suppose that the only way to decently make certain that Wine aware applications cannot do much damage would be to put it into a Jail of some sort.

Third off, what the hell is it emulating? Nothing. It is merely providing libraries and functions of a windows system onto a Linux system. It does nothing to emulate any hardware of any kind. I mean, if it was a windows emulator, Windows applications targeting x86_64 would work just fine on say, Sparc or PPC. However, this is not the case. Which is why the Mac OSX version of Wine is not functional unless the computer uses an x86_64 or ix86 chipset. And if an x86_64 program is attempted to be run on an ix86 chipest, it will not function either. If Wine is a Windows emulator, that would certainly make Cygwin a Linux emulator. Which calling a Cygwin a Linux Emulator is only going to make people think you are silly.

Wine applications, when they function, work and act like most Linux applications. In fact, if Wine was a more complete setup they would be completely indeterminable from other Linux apps. In fact, people end up would referring to Wine in the same manner they refer to Tkinter, QT4, Mono or GTK+. If you know somebody who is running a setup that mixes Tkinter, QT4, Mono and GTK+, you will note that even though the window decorations do not act the same, they still function much like other Linux applications.

Alright, so assuming in this rather broken simile of yours, that Wine is the rock. An ability to make it smaller would be to modify Wine to work more the framework Windows uses.

I mean, unless you have some argument for Wine being an emulator apart from "I have you reason .'. your argument is invalid"


Now it is interesting that you mention that the sole requirement for a Bible Thumper to occur is simply just picking and choosing what they believe.

I am going to assume that you do not actually know any Bible Thumpers, as this appears to be he case.

A Bible Thumper is a person who has been raised on a fairy tale. Right from a young age. They have been told that this world is true. If anybody tries to tell you otherwise, they are evil and are to be killed.

This person, grows up, and while he may or may not stop believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, he believes that his Fairy Tale is true. The _only_ proof he has for this is his Bible. If presented with any form of evidence stating otherwise, he will refer to his Bible to disprove that other evidence. Even if he sees the event with his own eyes, he will still believe that the Bible is true, and that Satan is playing a mean trick on him.

Bible Thumpers are not so much based on simply picking and choosing. They pick and choose their information from a single location. One that is often contradictory and broken in its own right. Even though they refuse to believe it.

Now, I admit, my thoughts on the matter may see contradictorial and broken. However, the only thing you have offered to prove my thoughts wrong is your own Bible. This is not a solution. Rather than believe my conclusion you simply pointed to the stats page on Steam as proof that Steam works. That is pretty much directly akin to the circular logic of, "the Bible is true, it says so in the Bible." Pointing to PCGamer could be seen as akin to pointing to a southern baptist church as proof of the Bible. Pointing to Wikipedia is not proof of anything however. Even for information that Wikipedia is accurate for, I would prefer to read the sources of Wikipedia, rather than rely on Wikipedia. I would also take into account of the various biases of the sources that Wikipedia references.


As per Money's conceptual value. What is this value? What could I say, if I went to some tribe on an island in the middle of an ocean, an describe to them, that this money is worth? I mean, at least with Gold it can be explained that it is a highly malleable metal that is excessively conductive.

So now, assuming that money does have a worth, and how much somebody makes is a valuable measurement of how functional their software is (without even going to bashing Microsoft, as you likely have seen this coming already--so I will go somewhere else with this)

Well, this money could be applied to how functional a religion is. I mean, if I really am a Bible Thumper, I would just center in on this one, right? The more money a religion makes (and trust me, they pull in a _lot_ of money. More so than some multinational corporations) the more correct it is?

I mean, this could be applied to show that Scientology is the most functional medicine out there (just using this as a hyperbole to showcase how wrong using capitol as a method to validate functionality. I am certain the Valve is no where near the levels of Scientology in getting money for something that does not actually function). Now Scientology has a large amount of ideas on how it works. I mostly simplify it down to this premis: you are brainwashed into giving Ron L. Hubbard all your money. If you are unable to continue giving Ron L. Hubbard money, well, generally the Scientologist generally gets killed. By themselves or other Scientologists. All this fluff about removing Thatans, Operating Thatans, E Metres and what not, largely is just a ceremony involved around this. The way to have Scientology properly fix you is to send your money to Ron L. Hubbard. Seeing as how Scientology as far as "cults" go (I regard all religions as cults BTW (oh and for further reference, the cult watch group? It is also run by Scientology)) is prolly one of the most financially successful one out there... well, generally this must mean it is very functional as far as religions go?

Now, I must apologise for that gross hyperbole. I was merely showing to you, how wrong the idea that the more money a group makes, the more functional their product is. This prolly just took this thread a lot further than invoking Godwin's Law did.


How the Second Great War invokes Godwin's Law? Well, it is hard to talk about the Second Great War without Hilter, the SS or the National Socialist Party of the Weihmar Republic coming into the picture.

The issue though, is many people today have no clue what happened in that war, apart from what they are told.

Let us go on the list, of myths about the Second Great War:
* USA saved the world. Not quite. Germany was losing anyways at this point. The only reason USA could do anything was because they were selling weaponry to both sides of the war. The only reason USA is the world super power it is today, is because it sold weaponry to both the Allies and the Axis in that war.
* Weihmar Republic were the offenders. Only if you do not realise that the Second Great War was in fact caused by the Treaty of Versilles. Once you realise that if the world powers listened to the American President of the time, rather than simply penialising the Weihmar Republic for the sake of vengeance, The Second Great War would not have occurred in the way it did.
* The National Socialist Party was bad of gassing Jews. Well, this is only _part_ of the picture. The SS set it up, so that as well as the Jews, the Homosexuals, the Roma, the Mentally Ill and the Communists were also gased (it should be noted that at one point, Hitler belonged to all of these groups, apart from the Roma)
* Hitler committed Suicide at the end of the war. One issue there was no body recovered. Yes, the Russkis did have a body they were calling Hitler. However, it has been found that the skeletal structure of the body is a _female_ skeleton. Which means one of two things, (a) Hitler was actually a Girl or (b) that body was not Hitler. Though, if you want, I am perfectly fine with the idea of Hitler being female.
* USA won The Second Great War by nuking Hirogama and Nagisashi. Well, you need to understand, when the first nuke went off, the war was already over. Japan's forces were already signing treaties with other countries and reforming. After the first bomb was dropped Japan had surrendered to USA. Japan really did not want to even chance another of the Nukes. The second bomb was only dropped, because the Russians were not certain that the nuke was anything more than a Fluke.
* Normady/Juno/(whatever the third beach from was) Beach were important battles that won the Second Great War. Certainly a fun story, but by the time these battles were won, Russia had already taken most of Berlin.
* Our side was innocent. The Dominion of Canada and USA were just as the Weihmar Republic with their detaining of their society's undesirable. In the Dominion of Canada and USA, instead of Jews, it was anybody with slightly slanty eyes. Had a thick Dutch or Italian Accent? Walk around free. However, regardless of if your were actually from Japan or not, if you were oriental, your property was removed from you (and never returned). You were sent to the prairies. You were denied the ability to meet in groups. You were not allowed to own or operate electronics of any kind. Now while this may seem like an "effective" manner of spy control, China was on the side of the Allies at the time. Further more, if we had started to lose the Second Great War, it would have been us gassing the oriental people. As the Weihmar Republic did not start killing the undersireables until after they started to lose.

Now, you need to understand, these myths are not addressed in many people's reality on the Second Great War. Many people do not even know this stuff occurred. So the idea is: most people do not actually take the full reality of the Second Great ar into their understanding of its occurrence. Which means, while denying it happened does not make it happened. Saying did happen, does not imply knowledge on how the events occurred and took place.


Now then, we get into something I have been stating all along: my sources are just as credible as your sources. If you can show me Steam working in Windows in a better manner (keeping in mind, holy tracts from Valve themselves are not proof, money is not decent proof, and I have been known to browser pictures and videos of Atlantis and Bigfoot. Neither of which I really desire to present as proof of their existences outside of my own mere fancy and desire for them to exist), or that the information on that site is false, then you have just disarmed my argument. At which point, I would need to consider that the possibility that I am wrong. Much like how @kettle11 has successfully accomplished.

Now keep in mind, Steam does not really negate Wine on its site. How I interpreted Steam's statement on a Linux client is, "there is not one in development. We do have dedicated servers for Linux. Some playeres have used it in Wine, however we do not support Wine at this time."

From WineHQ AppDB as well as many Steam users on Wine, Steam runs just as well in Wine as it does in Windows. With the exception of Gentoo, various Ubuntu spins and Debian Sid. Now, if you can prove this wrong, then I would be more inclined to believe that this is a functional program. All you have done so far, is say, "Steam say Steam works. Various companies that review Steam products agree. .'. it does function".

For most of the thread, I have been asking for me to physically see a version of Steam running. Not some video or picture.


In the Linux community, if I were to say, "X program does not function", and the people using X program could not prove functionality, it would be regarded as nonfunctional--no matter what the people using X program say. This has been the case for such software as Perl 6, Python 3 and KDE4. In some cases they have even said that the software was not production ready. For example Rakudo Star (Parrot implmentation of Perl 6) and Python 3 are still not slated as ready for production use. However Rakudo Star is slated for a rellease in QT2 2010. If you do not believe this statement, you can observe its developments in real time via the Git Repo of both Rakudo Star and Parrot. In the case of KDE4, the people making KDE4 were saying it was not ready for production use for a long time. However Canonical kind of forced their hand, but releasing a version of KUbunutu that use KDE4 before KDE4 was ready for production use (Canonical does all sorts of stupid things that only serve to harm the FlOSS world). Leading people to believe that it was at a release level-until KDE4.3 was released and the people making KDE responded, "_this_ is a productional quality environment. Now, let us do our jobs."

Perhaps Windows is a different environment where I can simply look at statistics to know if something works. I never confessed to understanding Windows that well. I have said that the operation of a Windows machine is foreign to me, and I generally understand with my own limited knowledge of windows operation, that if I had a Windows box, it would end up being riddled with more social diseases than the Babelonian Whore


- @kettle11 hmm... I do not recall that one being rated on WineHQ DB--as it is far too new. I will add my rating. Perhaps somebody on Wine will give me a more competent hand with this.

Also, I thought Karmic Koala would be 11.x. As Jaunty is 10.x I mean Intrepid should be the version that is 9.10. (yeah, I am lame enough to have hanged around with enough Ubloatfail developers to know their naming scheme. That being based on animal's first letters in alphabetical order (), and what a group of the animals would be 1.x ::= A.*, 2.x ::= B.*, etc.)
@SeraphArc heh nice counter. However, I agree it is the same thing. The source is just as important as the product. If I have no reason to trust the source is legit, I have no reason to trust the end product.

Once given a reason to trust said source, than most products will not have as many issues.
Trust it because I'm the only one who has actually made a video, as opposed to the others that said they could. I've given no reason for distrust and so I don't feel that there is a need for it. I'm going to upload the video to my youtube account where you can see it and several other videos I have made.

You're right, nobody uses steam because it doesn't work for you. Flawless argument imo.
OK, people, everyone take a breath here...
First of all, I would like to point out that I use steam, I personally have used it only on XP for the purpose of playing TF2, Garry's Mod and Warhammer DOWII. My first thought here is that if steam as a whole does not work, then how on earth would i be able to play Garry's Mod online, as it is only offered through STEAM. Secondly, DOWII may have a retail copy, but in order to play the game it is required to have STEAM (not optional, REQUIRED) sure, this may be an ass-move however if STEAM did not work then how would review sites have been able to play DOWII and how, for that matter, would anyone have been able to review the game if STEAM would not allow it to run? FYI Whenever I launch a STEAM game it automatically launches STEAM in order to launch the game requested. (P.S. As far as I know, the only way to play a STEAM game without STEAM is to pirate it, and surely the 10 or so sites that I found after google-ing both of those games would not have pirated a game that they are testing publicly, no?) (P.P.S. Also, is your primary/first-learned language other than English? As I have noticed some grammatical irregularities that could only be attributed to languages "carrying" into your posts, again a simple side question, not an attack or defamation post.)
Oh, and the capitalization of STEAM and other names is OCD for me, not an emphasis
@SeraphArc heh, well, I have had people give me plenty of reason to trust them in the past, only to have been betrayed. The idea of, "you can trust me, because I have given not reason to be distrusted" is not valid to me. People need to earn trust and respect. _Especially_ the people who think their position should give it to them automatically.

- @R3cursive right--equally flawless as, "steam works for me, however, I do not desire to prove this to you. So, you need to accept this as a reality"

- @stukinit Well.. Canadian English is the language I was raised learning. However, both my parents spoke British English--so I tend to lean more over to that dialect as oppose to American English. Some general British English elements of my speak are, "use of 'u' in words where it would have them correctly spelled", "use of 's' in various words instead of 'z'--such as the correct spelling of 'realise'" and when "and" is used in a list and not as a manner of sentence conjunction, I do not use a comma for it (first thing, second thing and third thing). I am certain there are various other Canadian or British items in English that may be seen in most of my posts. Such as regular use of the words "daft" and "bloody"--though, I have yet to use a word like "deke" in context in a post.

Though, you need to understand, that my mental map has been increased to include elements of other languages in my thoughts processes. Much in manner that Robert Heinlein describes in his book, Stranger in a Strange Land.

I have tried to learn Japanese, and while I do not speak it at a fluent level, I do have a fair idea of what many people are talking about as they talk. Not enough that I could join in, but enough that I can pick up several words.

I have tried to learn Mandarin, however, I am only at a level, that I can merely recognise that somebody is speaking Mandarin.

I have also worked with learning Chinese Simplified, and have a small amount of knowledge here... but not enough to write home about.

I did end up trying to get taught French in elementary school, but I never really grasped many of the concepts until I read up on it in High School. Though, keep in mind, in grade 4, my French teacher had a rather thick Ukrainian Accent. In grade 5, my French teacher was also the gym teacher (who really did not want to be doing that course). In grade 6, the last year I studied French in school, the teacher seemed to know French, but we hated each other.

I have also looked into various concepts in German, but I do not confess to really knowing much, apart from knowing that the pronouns tend to do a better job of suggesting things, and that this language makes even the word Butterfly sound scary|mighty.

I am also familiar with some Yiddish and Latin, but not even to the point that I could recognise it being spoken. I mean, you could speak Greek to me, and tell me it was Latin, and I would have no reason to doubt you.

On top of natural languages that I have learned, in my area of the word, Cherokee is a fairly often spoken language. I mean, yes, the official languages of where I am, are English and French (federally) and English (provincially), but I have known people to have spoken Cherokee. Some have even claimed to have had entire conversations with me in Cherokee... I am not certain I can believe this, as I do not confess to being fluent in Cherokee. Though, they tend to be completely certain that I have done such an event.

I am also interested in learning Sanskrit, as in the next few months I build up my abilities in Mandarin, Japanese and Chinese Simplified. Possibly adding Cherokee and German, after I am finished learning one of those other four languages.

In the area of unnatural langauges, I am familiar with:
* Backus Noir Form
* Forth
* Haskell
* Some mathematical concepts (though I have not been able to memorise the various sin/cos/tan equivilents to be used, and thus could not go further there)
* Perl 5--working on Perl 6, which is more than a little different.
* Python 2
* C++
* Assembler
* Lisp
* Ruby 1.8
* Pascal
* Intercal (this likely has screwed up my mental map more than slightly)
* Regex

So, while my native language is Canadian English, leaning towards British English, I have since expanded what my mind is capable of grokking quite a bit since then.

Also, it does not help, that I tend to use Left Handed Logic, more than Right Handed Logic in how I handle various things like this (making it so that when I did take Computer Science courses, my stuff was marked by the teachers that used Left Handed Logic, rather than the teachers that used Right Handed Logic).

I will admit, there are plenty of typos in my works. Some common ones I have noticed, that frustrate me more than a little:
* forgetting a unary negative particle. Such as "not" or the negative sign. Though, this has been an issue I have had for a long time. Math teachers in Middle School have note this.
* Substituting one word in for another--very common typo. This usually has to do with typing with my fingers being wired into the same as talking with my mouth. It has happened more than a few times, that I am talking while typing, or listening to somebody else talk, and what I am typing has been affecting.
* The usual COPS issues--though drastically less so than others. (Capitalisatioon ?? Punctuation and Spelling)


Now then, I need to ask, how is you stating that you use it proof? Especially when I have yet to observe such an occurrence. And in an attempt to observe such an occurrence--the observation did not work, even though I followed the instructions just fine?
@stukinit also further mental mappings, related to my language and logic areas, that may also cause issues in what I am writing to be determined as "fluent in American English" is social structure of my family.

My Mother follows Eastern Culture ideas. I would be surprised if in the coming years, she did not convert to Shinto.

Me and my brother Andrew are both Discordians. Discordia is also known as "Zen for Wide Eyes", and many people who think in those languages, are likely to act and operate quite a bit differently. Their mannerisms are also going to be different.

My sister, Nyssa, follows the Flying Spaghetti Monster--apparently.

My brother Robin, I have no clue what he believes in. However, he seems like quite the smart and capable person.

Also my family reads far too much in the manner of literature designed to make us think. For example, I am a fan of Lovecraft, Asimov, Heinlein and Gibson--though I am picking up a fair amount of other enjoyable authors. So, reading and grokking these works, are more than likely going to change how I think, and how I word things just slightly differently.
Well, I tried. All I can say is that your logic is quite flawed. Here's a reversal on this situation. You said this earlier:

Statement 1: It runs in Wine in a similar manner to how it does in Windows.
Statement 2: It does not function in Wine.
Ergo: It does not function in Windows.

However, almost all of the things you said can be turned around and used as a counter argument since:

Statement 1: It runs in Wine in a similar manner to how it does in Windows.
Statement 2: It functions in Windows.
Ergo: It functions in Wine.

Since I have yet to see it not work for me, it must work for you. Can this also be said? Can it also be said that unless I have someone in the O'Fallon, IL area demonstrate to me that Steam does not work on Wine and I have irrefutable proof and have a recording crew here to witness the event, that anyone telling me otherwise is incorrect?

Your logic is flawed. Most logic is. We live in an illogical world where the possibility of someone dropping dead within 10 seconds of seeming perfectly fine is possible. Where a 60-70 year old woman can fall out of a some odd story building and be lucky enough that the cliche cartoon situation of falling on a cloth overhang saved their life. Just because Steam does not work for you does not mean it does not work.
Well said.
Oh and my point about review sites went unnoticed, phooie...
@SeraphArc logic fail BTW.

However, I am going to go on the grounds that you are not required to provide any proof that Steam works or operates in any fashion. I am just required to accept it works. Even though I have never actually seen anybody use it. Okay, this works.

BTW, look forward to the charges of animal cruelty and criminal neglect that are coming your way. As the invisible purple monkey that requires your guidance for food has not been getting fed.

Now, I cannot provide any evidence that this invisible purple monkey exists. Except for possibly pictures online and news stories about it. I mean, you will not be able to see it in your house, as well, seeing it simply does not work for you.

This does not mean, the invisible purple monkey does not exist.

Look forward to criminal charges.

- @stukinit uh--what point was that? I will reread your posts assuming you came up with something I have yet to address.
@SeraphArc dude don't waste your time ;) Anyone been playing Dragon Age: Origins Lately? I downloaded it off of steam. Digital deluxe version ;)
Oh BTW... somebody actually bothered to give me a demo IRL for it. It appears to work on Windows.

Yeah, that is right, somebody had the balls to demo it for me IRL, rather than scream insults at me over the Internet, post videos and pictures of it working, or just simply saying "oh, it is not worth demoing it for her."

Thank you Robin.
@KatrinaTheLamia The insults came because you were being fucking stupid about this. Sorry.
@xoaks and--I was only stupid because I was so damn pissed off about it. Which only caused things to get stupider.

It could have ended long ago. But no, instead, insults were chosen to be done instead.
@KatrinaTheLamia You were frustrating people. Hell, you were frustrating me. And you more or less called everyone who uses Steam a liar, which is at the very least annoying, and in my particular case, a grave insult in it's own right. :<
@xoaks and of course the only correct response is to insult back and accuse me of being a liar.
@KatrinaTheLamia Of course. It's the internet
@xoaks Sorry Lamia, but she's got a point sweetie.
@xoaks @Fallout2Forever : well, alright, I can go with that is how the internet works.

Now then, I need to ask: does it make it anymore right to have: somebody rather stressed out about something, and lashing out about it, simple lashing out back at them, without doing anything to relieve the problem.

I mean, it is all nice and all that the above idea of not helping somebody--even refusing to help somebody, saying, "it is not worth it"--being a common activity of the internet that it is to be expected.

But is this how we want to keep the internet?

I mean, you are all bigger than this. If I really am out of my gourd when I say it does not exist, you simply should be able to just show, "yes it does", and then be on your way. Rather than simply lash out back at me.

This generally shows a large lack of confidence on your side of the matter.

If something exists, you should not get all pissed off when somebody says it does not.
"you are all bigger than this." And yet, you're the one accusing the biggest downloadable video game provider of being a fake and a fraud. Okay.
@mokey91 right--and because I made accusations... that could have been removed a long time ago via the method that had me answer, that yes I was wrong--it somehow makes your response somehow better.

I must admit, I do not understand this response--it is all too often, where a system is toted as the best, and then, when accusations are made against it, rather than demonstrating the truth of the matter, the people being accused return with anger on the issue.

Look, it does not matter what I did here--had I just had a decent demo of it, I would have shut up a long time ago on my accusations.

And yes, I am aware, that, yes, Steam does function--to a certain level... however, in the Steam communities response to these questions on the matter... I am more than just a little bit hesitant to embrace Steam, once I do get a computer that can run it.

In short, "Damn scots, they ruined Scotland."
fail troll fails. I cannot believe how many people actually read past your first post and actually tried to convince a troll of anything rofl..

since this seems to be the avg intel level of the avg gamerdna member.

ill just leave on this note ROFLMFAO

HEY EVERYONE STEAM IS A JOKE. ITS A FAKE APPLICATION made solely to trick this one person.....the OP.

so shhhh no one let the op in on the joke k?

or we wont be able to use it anymore if everyone knows about the fake steam and joke application .
@MikeyPK and--well considering you just showed how you did not see what the conclusion was, kind of shows your own intelligence level.

Incase it was not obvious, after somebody took the opportunity to actually do something silly, like give me a live demo of it, I recanted my views on this matter.

I am mostly just pissed off, that this got to this point, as well, I could have been shut up a long time ago if I had been given a demo earlierr. Rather than just accused of being a troll and being told that apparently, I am "not worth" being on Steam--or some elitist bullshit like that.

I mean--I would delete this thread... but no, I will keep it up, to show that in this little debate, nobody won. I mean, yes, I do now know that Steam is legit--however, in how people reacted to my overly frustrated state kind of makes the Steam community look a lot worse.

I mean--I do not care what I am saying, this could have ended long ago, if you took the damn high road, and just gave me a demo of the software a lot sooner than you did.
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